Atlas Shrugged

[Hazir]

I've heard so much about this book that I decided to get a copy and try to read it. I've not quite made it through the first chapter and I don't really know if I ever will. The biggest suprise so far is how most of the characters I have seen in the book come accross as cardboard clichees.

Place your bets, will I finish this libertarian bible ?

[Aimless]

I personally predict a 70% chance of us reading "Hazir Shrugged"

[Dreadnaught]

I read the first few pages once and found the writing to be pretty awful and the plot sorta boring. But I've always been surprised at the number of people who seem to like it, even those whose political views aren't particularly right-wing.

[Hazir]

I read the first few pages once and found the writing to be pretty awful and the plot sorta boring. But I've always been surprised at the number of people who seem to like it, even those whose political views aren't particularly right-wing.

Yeah, that's what struck me too. I was seriously surprised because even though I know most people read it for different reasons, as a novel it starts out pretty awful.

[GGT]

Try the movies first, Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, then go back and read the books. You may shrug about what it takes to make a Hollywood movie.

[Dreadnaught]

Based on the trailers, I suggest never watching the movie versions.

They're like a false flag operation for communism.

[GGT]

Based on the trailers, I suggest never watching the movie versions.

They're like a false flag operation for communism.

What?

[Dreadnaught]

I meant these modern ones:

[Khendraja'aro]

Gawd, even the trailers are mind-numbingly boring.

[Lewkowski]

Based on the trailers, I suggest never watching the movie versions.

They're like a false flag operation for communism.

Eh that's a bit extreme, I watched the movie and while it was a bit heavy handed it wasn't the worst movie I've seen. But you have to remember this is a movie about a book not meant for entertainment. Movies based on political books just aren't that entertaining. Movies that preach are annoying. Movies that try to make you "think" are retarded. The medium is designed for laughs and explosions. If you want to "think" or examine a philosophical/political perspective... READ.

[Hazir]

So I made it into the second chapter, the description of the Metal Magnate feels like a capitalist's version of the leninist-stalinist New Man.

[Khendraja'aro]

Eh that's a bit extreme, I watched the movie and while it was a bit heavy handed it wasn't the worst movie I've seen. But you have to remember this is a movie about a book not meant for entertainment. Movies based on political books just aren't that entertaining. Movies that preach are annoying. Movies that try to make you "think" are retarded. The medium is designed for laughs and explosions. If you want to "think" or examine a philosophical/political perspective... READ.

Right. So something like Full Metal Jacket, Clockwork Orange or Solaris are meaningless. Right.

[Steely Glint]

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
― John Rogers

[RandBlade]

Its a VERY long time now since I watched it but I recall the Gary Cooper black and white version of The Fountainhead being quite entertaining.

[Flixy]

Right. So something like Full Metal Jacket, Clockwork Orange or Solaris are meaningless. Right.

Haven't seen Solaris, but the others are not really films about politics, but films with political messages, which isn't really the same as a film based on a political book. Though he still just called it retarded, but maybe he just doesn't notice messages when they are films? Because I think the best films are often the ones that make you think.

Recently Game Change was a good film though - message may be rather one sided and Lewk would hate it for being leftist, but it is definitely entertaining and not boring. The West Wing (okay, not a film but television) was also rather popular I think. Frost vs. Nixon was a film about political interviews, and still entertaining.

[Nessus]

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
― John Rogers

...what is worrying is the cult-like following that the Tolkien films have encouraged. Many of the acolytes seem victims of arrested development – detaching themselves from the real world with its real people and its real challenges. In the same way that superhero movies actually emasculate the audience by convincing them that their problems are so big that only a man in a cape can solve them, so the fantasy racket returns us to the emotional paralysis of early childhood.

The true horror comes when someone can no longer tell the difference between what’s real and what’s not and they end up living their lives as dwarves or wizards. It’s only a matter of time before the Tolkien cult grows so big that we have to treat it like a serious part of our culture. Expect Labour councils to snatch children from foster parents because they’re a member of a political party that is anti-orc. It’s only a matter of time.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ti...-to-the-shire/

ONLY A MATTER OF TIME

Whereas Ayn Rand ran for VP of the Free World just now

[Steely Glint]

Thank goodness, I thought only the Guardian had idiotic commentators.

[Lewkowski]

Right. So something like Full Metal Jacket, Clockwork Orange or Solaris are meaningless. Right.

Can't comment on what I haven't seen but people who take messages from movies are likely to be sheep. If the purpose of the film is to drive a certain message across then all the images, audio and ambiance are going to be tailor made to persuade the audience to that point of view. The only people who would be influenced by that kind of biased garbage are sheep. Where as the written word is something people can rationally review without the emotional sub-context around the issue invoked by cinema. I'm not suggesting that books can't be biased or paint a false picture but at least your other senses aren't being attacked as well.

Movies have a place. Entertainment. Explosions and comedy are my two favorites. Others will have different things. Heck if the political message is something you agree with you'll probably like a movie with a political message. Of course if the point was to influence people - its then failed since you already had that position.

[Ominous Gamer]

Can't comment on what I haven't seen but people who take messages from movies are likely to be sheep. If the purpose of the film is to drive a certain message across then all the images, audio and ambiance are going to be tailor made to persuade the audience to that point of view. The only people who would be influenced by that kind of biased garbage are sheep. Where as the written word is something people can rationally review without the emotional sub-context around the issue invoked by cinema. I'm not suggesting that books can't be biased or paint a false picture but at least your other senses aren't being attacked as well.

this is one of your more insane ramblings emotional movie lovers are sheep (ignoring how your definition of entertainment movies play off the same senses), but bookworms are not (and vice-versa)

[Lewkowski]

this is one of your more insane ramblings emotional movie lovers are sheep (ignoring how your definition of entertainment movies play off the same senses), but bookworms are not (and vice-versa)

Sappy romances (if that is what entertains you) is legit entertainment. I don't think you get what I'm trying to say.

[Ominous Gamer]

movies that convey "messages" do so by playing on people's emotional state. Its how the persuasion you fear so much is reached. I'm not referring to chick flics. The fact that you immediately jumped to romance when emotions are mentioned only shows how poorly you grasp this entire concept.

To think this is something only movies do best over other media, or that its wrong for people to enjoy or experience those movies, that's....

[Khendraja'aro]

I'm not exactly sure that people who were shocked by the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan were "sheep".

It would be pretty hard for a book to convey the same message.

[Steely Glint]

ITT we discover that Lewkowski thinks that any movie with a "message" or "themes" just means the movie is about why you should have gun control or something like that.

[Veldan Rath]

I think Lewk would agree with you on Saving Private Ryan.

I didn't view the beach landing as a political message (against war or anything else).

[Flixy]

Not glorifying battle like most films could be seen as a statement by itself, I suppose.

[Khendraja'aro]

I think Lewk would agree with you on Saving Private Ryan.

I didn't view the beach landing as a political message (against war or anything else).

It's not per se. But it does depict the events in a rather graphic and shocking way. That's not something a book can do and carries a message in and of itself.

[Veldan Rath]

Depends upon the author and the reader. But I will agree that cinema makes such scenes easier to get across.

[GGT]

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
― John Rogers

Wonder where he'd put Lord of the Flies.



Lewk, you have simple ideas about "entertainment". That's fine, but don't criticize those who have higher expectations.

Cinema uses history, drama, plot, dialogue, music scores, set and costume design, etc. Great cinema takes it to a higher level...in ways that can capture an audience, use all their senses, and become an indelible, vicarious experience. But I'm guessing you're not big on live performance, or theater in general. You probably think Opera is for sissies, too.

[Hazir]

Oh my god, this book is going down real fast. I mean, really, where did that woman get her ideas from? It's like reading about a non-existing capitalist country where all the capitalists think and behave not like capitalists but as middle class liberals. Which I have no doubt she despised, because all of them are stupid. With the one exception of the steel magnate of course who seems more of an autistic, he's her hero, I think at least. Or could it be the woman that bullies her brother at the railroad company.

And they made a movie out of this? That must be like a slow-witted brother of the Twilight franchise.

[Veldan Rath]

I found the movie enjoyable. <shrug>