Are you going to say Free Markets and Free Enterprise have all the answers for the violence that ails our society?Originally Posted by Loki
Yes
No
Maybe
Other?
Are you going to say Free Markets and Free Enterprise have all the answers for the violence that ails our society?
So in one hand you say 'I don't know' yet you want to blame the NRA for sensationalizing? Really the NRA is the one sensationalizing?
Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita
Sort of difficult because the kid took the guns from his mom and killed her with them.
Not sure where the idea comes from that per-capita gun ownership is lower than ever. There are 200 million registered guns in the US or something, operating in various jurisdictions with various restrictions.
I vaguely remember a study that was done relatively recently that came to that conclusion, however I'm not certain the methodology they used was, if you'd pardon the pun, bulletproof. I seem to remember that it was conducted over the phone and asked whether or not a member of the household owned a firearm. Being a firearm owner myself, I could definitely see myself being reticent to answer that question if it was posed by an anonymous stranger over the phone.
http://www.norc.org/Research/Topics/Pages/security.aspx
The Fuzzy Numbers study? The one published in Scientific American is quite good.
Plenty of articles have cited numbers from NORC, WHO, the Brady Project etc. The US being 5% of global population but owning over 50% of all weapons (second only to Yemen per capita). Household gun ownership has declined since the 70's....but that means multiple guns are in fewer hands.
Assuming effective gun control is even possible in a country with millions of weapons already in circulation, it would only serve to mitigate the body count in the next shooting - which is a good and worthy goal but I'm far more interested in the question of who are these people that feel the need to make a point by shooting up a school, where do they come from and why does America produce so many of them? That's a question I fear will be lost in the inevitable upcoming shit storm about gun control.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Because this is seen as a way to punish society by those who feel spurned by it. In China, similar people stab children. Britain seems to do a better job of getting the seriously mentally ill off the streets. In America, they shoot random people. Most killers aren't sufficiently innovative to go outside the box. They do what is done by their predecessors.
Hope is the denial of reality
The guy was autistic. The reasons why he did this are therefore lost in the mysteries of mental illness.
There is more value, I suspect, in questioning what America does with its mentally ill. That is, if we take extremely easy access to an arsenal of weapons as a given, which I suppose Americans do.
Not that I entirely disagree, but in this case he stole a legal gun from someone else and used it to kill her. And it's not like it's impossible to get guns here, and not like school massacres don't happen outside the USA.
There is some value to what he said - it is true that still being shot in school is a very unlikely thing to happen to you. Thing is that it is (very) media sensitive, gets loads of attention (understandably so). You do want to watch out for overreacting to incidents like this with extreme measures. Keep in mind that a whole bunch of well-meant measures intended to make places safer, don't do that, or can even make it less safe.
While I still do think that in the USA in general more gun control is something you should want, I do agree that this case seems pretty much disconnected from it.
Are those the only options?
Agreed. Even with good gun control, there will still be crazy people finding a way to do stuff like this. You can minimize it, but you can't get rid of it.
I would like to point out that, for example, Breivik did have trouble buying the guns he wanted because those were illegal, so it's at least an extra hurdle, giving more chances of something being prevented. And it can indeed keep the bodycount down, too. But where there's a will, there's a way.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Personally, I think the rantings about god in the classroom are far more annoying than the gun debate being rekindled.
looong image:
although it is alarming to see the same people who were, just last week, claiming how our public teachers are incompetent and useless are now claiming those same teachers should be issued assault rifles
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Large numbers of murders happen every year in the US via illegal guns. Put another way, an overwhelming majority of the 200 million legally-owned guns in the US are not being used to murder. They are the 99%.
Put another way they are not in fact being used for anything remotely useful beyond impulsive suicide, making drugs dangerous, and accidental injuries.
Last edited by Aimless; 12-18-2012 at 10:31 AM.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Actually, most probably sit around in drawers except when taken out for fun and hunting. Potential energy, yo.
Incidentally were the US to decide to repeal the 2nd Amendment (which I don't think has a snowball's chance until many, many more Newtowns) the current prevalence of guns would not make it impossible. The US Second Amendment was afterall based on the UK's own Bill of Rights a century earlier that included a right to bear arms (so long as you were Protestant). Nowadays though after many law changes and government buybacks and destruction of guns etc guns are not a major problem here. However the biggest issue with a "no guns" gun control isn't removing guns from circulation anyway, its making it difficult to be able to legally get new ammunition that makes the real difference.
In the real world of course Americans started buying more weapons in response to the death of 20 small children. Maybe it should be legal for toddlers to carry semi-automatics to school. Just in case of course.
Congratulations America
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Some lively reader comments to that article.
I'm not seeing how the 2nd Amendment argument flies, as it's being used. It comes with limits and regulations. Shouldn't that apply especially for military-grade and assault weapons that aren't needed for anything but killing people?
edit -- wish I'd paid more attention during the Prohibition and US Constitutional exhibits I saw recently. Pretty sure that's the era when sawed-off shotguns, Tommy guns, and machine guns were banned.
You're probably thinking of the NFA of 1934. It was largely rendered moot when key measures were struck down by SCOTUS. Machine guns are still largely illegal for civilian use in the US (with a lot of caveats).
and the overreaction continues. Pumped Up Kicks has been removed from the radio rotation, a song that was written about the problem with school shootings is now being labeled as encouraging it
Ke$ha's "Die Young" has also been pulled for being insensitive, and she was later censored by her handlers for talking about how she didn't want to sing the lyrics, but was it was forced onto her as part of her contracts.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Eh? Haven't heard pumped up kicks in months and I just heard Kesha's song again on the radio. That might just be a local thing.and the overreaction continues. Pumped Up Kicks has been removed from the radio rotation, a song that was written about the problem with school shootings is now being labeled as encouraging it
Ke$ha's "Die Young" has also been pulled for being insensitive, and she was later censored by her handlers for talking about how she didn't want to sing the lyrics, but was it was forced onto her as part of her contracts.
There are other things we could be discussing besides guns. Like our mental health system, with cracks large enough to lose thousands from our younger generation...not to mention veterans...who need some help. I can attest first hand how difficult it can be, first in recognizing problems, not getting hung up on stigmas (or false pride). Then finding the right type of help, while wading through insurance networks and COB. Those barriers just add to anxiety and a sense of hopelessness. We can do better than this.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...171359967.html
Sales soar for kid-themed body armor backpacks
Perhaps we should fight violence with more violence...
http://news.yahoo.com/know-stop-scho...003203357.html
Ann Coulter?
You used the same reasoning after the movie theater massacre....despite others pointing out what a horrible idea it would be to have a shoot out in the chaos of a packed, dark, smoke-filled theater.
Ah yes because guns have never stopped angry gunman. Did ya read the article?Ann Coulter?
You used the same reasoning after the movie theater massacre....despite others pointing out what a horrible idea it would be to have a shoot out in the chaos of a packed, dark, smoke-filled theater.
Good to see that Coulter has finally arrived on a platform more appropriate for a pundit of her standing.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
pointed out this ridiculous stupidity 3 days ago
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
And just so you know....I'm ambivalent about restrictions by person and mental state, even though some kind of "test" seems necessary. Not just because of the privacy implications, but because our mental health system is pretty crappy.
It's not quite the same as a driver's license tests for vision, reflexive reactions, knowing rules-of-the-road, or having a physician's exemption for seizures, approval for disabled devices, or a petition to deny based on age or infirmity.
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