EU-US free trade zone

[Aimless]

If you could show a legal link advising that signing a contract that violates the law makes it legal I'd be very amused. All I've seen says it's not (with a select few exceptions already built in).

http://www.freelanceadvisor.co.uk/go...bank-holidays/

Certain ‘special case’ workers are exempt from these rest break provisions and can be legitimately asked to work through their rest-breaks if:

• you are a shift worker who may not be able to take their daily or weekly rest periods between shifts. Shift Workers are defined as those engaged in activities involving periods of work that are split up over the day and those who work according to a certain shift pattern where workers ‘succeed’ each other at the same work station. The shift pattern may be continuous or not, but will involve the need for workers to work at different times over a given period of days or weeks.
• there is a genuine need for continuity of production/service around the clock, eg. hospitals, residential institutions, care workers, press/tv/film/radio, public utilities, industries where machinery must be kept working 24 hours a day, research and development activities, agriculture,
• the work is affected by unusual or unforeseeable circumstances beyond anyone’s control, or exceptional events, or where work is affected by an accident or risk of an accident,
• the work involves security or surveillance which requires a permanent presence,
• the work has a forseeable surge in activity, i.e. in agriculture, tourism and postal services,
• there is a Collective or Workforce Agreement in place that excludes these rest-break obligations – but the workers must have been fully consulted with to ensure these are valid.

In these cases, if you cannot receive your rest breaks you must be offered an equivalent period of ‘compensatory rest’ wherever possible. This compensatory rest should be given immediately after the end of the work period where possible. If this is not possible for objective reasons, the Employer should give you “such protection as may be appropriate in order to safeguard the workers health and safety” (e.g. an assessment of the worker’s continued fitness to work, reducing his/her workload or additional supervision). The Government Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (previously BERR) has guidance that says a worker, even if they fall into one of these categories, must have a right to a minimum of 90 hours rest per week. Compensatory rest does not necessarily need to come out of time that would otherwise have been working time.

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/areas...estperiods.htm

The Working Time Directive allows for collective agreements to fix or define relevant standards of rest breaks during working hours. The directive gives priority to collective agreements over legislation in determining the EU standard. The EU standard is to be determined by collective bargaining (though without specifying the appropriate level) and, only in its absence, by legislation.

[Aimless]

So perhaps we can acknowledge that it by definition is not about signing an "illegal contract"

[Hazir]

So perhaps we can acknowledge that it by definition is not about signing an "illegal contract"

Article 18 of the directive.

Of course I don't know if the Brits decided to make application of article 18 impossible in their national legislation.

MAYBE we should just accept that the Brits are so used to stupid and partisan legislation that they don't understand sensible regulation for what it is.

[Aimless]

To be fair, the UK is (was?) the only major country to make use of that and even there it might not be for much longer

[Hazir]

To be fair, the UK is (was?) the only major country to make use of that and even there it might not be for much longer

Without bothering to even look at it I am pretty certain that Holland will have used it as well, for the simple reason that article 18 closely resembles an escape clause I recognize from Dutch labor legislation.

[RandBlade]

Without bothering to even look at it I am pretty certain that Holland will have used it as well, for the simple reason that article 18 closely resembles an escape clause I recognize from Dutch labor legislation.

The UK is the only nation to use it now, however that article 18 refers once again to the 48 hour limit; a limit I never mentioned in the UK as I said earlier because we have that opt-out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5323488.stm
https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work

It appears that Minx is right that you can get collective agreements to amend the rule, but that's not been pointed out on any law or news source I've seen before.

[Hazir]

The Commission has been given a mandate to negotiate.

[Dreadnaught]

Nice. The question is if Obama has the mandate to negotiate, because whatever he negotiates has to be approved by Congress. This makes a final agreement subject to the current US political climate on economic issues, which isn't too healthy.

[RandBlade]

If it can be agreed - big if - I'd imagine Congress would have less issues with Europe than Asia which undercuts the US so often.

[Hazir]

Nice. The question is if Obama has the mandate to negotiate, because whatever he negotiates has to be approved by Congress. This makes a final agreement subject to the current US political climate on economic issues, which isn't too healthy.

It's not like the Commission can finalize any deal without the Council and EP accepting the result.

[LittleFuzzy]

I suspect the Council provides rather more regular feedback/input over the course of negotiations than Congress does though (which means it is more likely to see a final product it agrees with presuming negotiations go anywhere), and I know the EP is less. . . obstructionist or at least less-effectively obstructionist, once a treaty is set before them.

[Hazir]

Hmmm ... not the Council itself but probably you're right the memberstates will keep a very close eye on the negotiations as they happen. Making it more likely the Council will like the result. The EP's position is rather stronger than it used to be, but I think they'll most likely vote in favor of any deal that cements the single market. That's where they derive their most real powers from.

[Dreadnaught]

I look forward to this becoming an active political issue in the US.

Seriously, we don't pay enough focus to trade in our regular discourse.

[Loki]

I still don't see Obama sacrificing any political capital to get this passed on the American side.

[LittleFuzzy]

Well no, of course not. Free-trade was practically the pet project of the DLC wing and while Obama has let a number of "New Democrats" into his administration (practically a necessity since they're the ones with the most experience after Clinton's two terms) he himself rather favors the economic populism that centrists have been struggling so hard to minimize in the party.

[Loki]

Hopefully this drags on until 2017 and we get a more economically-literate president to approve this.

[GGT]

Well no, of course not. Free-trade was practically the pet project of the DLC wing and while Obama has let a number of "New Democrats" into his administration (practically a necessity since they're the ones with the most experience after Clinton's two terms) he himself rather favors the economic populism that centrists have been struggling so hard to minimize in the party.

Interesting how you put that. Isn't the DNC base mostly those "new democrats" who favor economic populism....and define that as moderate/centrism?

Hopefully this drags on until 2017 and we get a more economically-literate president to approve this.

Like NAFTA?

[Loki]

Yes, like NAFTA, one of the biggest economic successes of the last few decades.

Reading is clearly not your specialty by the way. "New Democrats" are the Clinton wing of the DNC, who are anything but economically populist. The Obama wing is only good at taxing, spending, regulating, and "protecting".

[GGT]

Yes, like NAFTA, one of the biggest economic successes of the last few decades.

Depends on who's talking, or walking. I get a perverse kick out of the "F".

Reading is clearly not your specialty by the way. "New Democrats" are the Clinton wing of the DNC, who are anything but economically populist.

Good fortune -- I caught your edit before posting my reply! Next move is yours. Do you want to dissect US policy by party affiliation, or by principle? Because, ya know, they're not mutually exclusive.

[Aimless]

Just the other day I had to make an import fee deposit of around 25% to order a few plastic veggie spiralizers. The fuck!

[LittleFuzzy]

Interesting how you put that. Isn't the DNC base mostly those "new democrats" who favor economic populism....and define that as moderate/centrism?



Like NAFTA?

Huh? DNC is Democratic National Committee which is certainly not the party base or the rank & file of the party. The DNC is the coordinator and central funder for the entire party's electioneering efforts. I didn't mention them, I said DLC, the Democratic Leadership Council, started in 1985 as a political non-profit. "New Democrat" was a term Democrats who agreed with/adhered to DLC policy positions took for themselves (along with members of related groups like "Third Way" to distance themselves from the McGovern wing of the party, which called itself the "New Left" back in the 60s and 70s and which strongly favored economic populism, among other classic progressive causes. The New Democrats and DLC certainly did advocate centrism and viewed themselves as moderates in contrast to the very firmly Left members of the party like Wellstone.

[Asmodian]

"See section named Breaks for that stupidly inflexible 11 hour regulation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive"

I believe the idea is that in order to perform adequately human beings need a certain amount of rest. I agree it is somewhat arbitrary and in particular in your example it may seem ridiculous as the actual rest time in reduced only by a fraction but that is the thing with cut of laws you draw the line somewhere and you have to apply it. I am not convinced that a drink age laws make much sense if we look at someone who will reach it in a month. But I can sort of see the logic that people need a certain amount of rest between shifts in order to perform adequately, granted it should take an industry in the account. I.E. it is more important that a taxi-driver does not work several shifts with only a few hours of sleep then it is for someone who cleans toilets. Then you can argue about how many hours is adequate.

[RandBlade]

There's a world of difference in determining a barrier between adults and children; and treating adults as children.

[GGT]

....The New Democrats and DLC certainly did advocate centrism and viewed themselves as moderates in contrast to the very firmly Left members of the party like Wellstone.

Distinction noted. I should have left off the DNC part, since my emphasis was on the Democrats' "base" -- voters who register as (D) OR tend to vote (D), including moderates/centrists. (Unrelated to any administration's appointees, or Obama.)

"Economic populism" is defined differently by voters than academics or politicians. IMO there aren't distinct party lines voters used to associate with one party or the other....especially after the financial crisis/Great Recession, high unemployment, sluggish job recovery, etc. That's the main point I was making about "trade agreements" (albeit not very well).