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Thread: Memory of Light

  1. #31
    Man you just get dumber and dumber whine more willya
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  2. #32
    I will say that this series should have been edited by someone other than RJ's wife, there was a point that I don't think she could tell RJ that some scenes, characters, storyline's needed to end sooner or not happen at all, I think BS's pace was a breath of fresh air.

    What could have been of those books in the middle that started to really drag out (I can tell you about half the readers of WoT IRL I know pretty much quit after WH) and turn readers off if there was an editor who could have seen the lack of pace, the frustration of having things drag on and on, on minor plot points too, how much more enjoyable would the series have been if Perrin had crafted his power wrought hammer before the end of the 2nd to last book....

  3. #33
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Man you just get dumber and dumber whine more willya
    ???

    I really don't see issues with his points. He dislikes the distribution model they chose, and that makes him a woman hater?
    Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    So you didn't start reading the series until 10 years after it started?
    When I started reading them, the first six were available in paperback, and I don't think Crown of Swords had quite been released yet. I was twelve? Or possibly thirteen, I can't remember now. Definitely still in middle school. So Eye had been out for maybe six years. I'm thirty now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    I get it, I think e-books are awesome too. But here's the thing: many fans are mad because they aren't able to purchase the book in the precise form they want it. But why is that suddenly a legitimate reason to get mad?
    Because in paper form it makes a good bludgeon, just like every other WoT book besides the New Spring prequel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    What is with the misogyny bull shit lately?
    Your language. You've highlighted gender in your use of pejoratives and Minx is right in that one narrow area, it makes you skeevy.
    Last edited by LittleFuzzy; 01-17-2013 at 12:03 AM.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    When I started reading them, the first six were available in paperback, and I don't think Crown of Swords had quite been released yet. I was twelve? Or possibly thirteen, I can't remember now. Definitely still in middle school. So Eye had been out for maybe six years. I'm thirty now.



    Because in paper form it makes a good bludgeon, just like every other WoT book besides the New Spring prequel.



    Your language. You've highlighted gender in your use of pejoratives and Minx is right in that one narrow area, it makes you skeevy.
    Cow is a gender pejorative? What kind of sissy talk is that?

  6. #36
    I've told other people I know who read the books that RJ dying was the BEST thing to happen to the WOT series.
    You are probably one of the only people that hold that view. I understand he had a more drawn out writing style, and that he just got done with a long section of build up novels; however, he wrote characters much better than Sanderson, at least the characters I know are not the same in Sanderson's book. The feel to each of them except for a few is noticalbly different for me. I'd much rather had an RJ complete story.

    Lastly, I don't understand how luddites disgust you; I understand how racist, homophobes, or elitist could disgust you, but on non-moral issues I don't see how one would be disgusted.

    As far as why some people would want to pay less for an e-book, well it cost less to produce so you'd think you'd have some savings there. Secondly, a lot of people wnat to be able to dispay their books. I know I often will intentionally keep the latest book i'm reading out in the open in case someone i'm talking to has read it or is prompted to make a comment on it. There are a lot of pros to e-books of course.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Cow is a gender pejorative? What kind of sissy talk is that?
    umm... yeah. the literal definition is gender specific; large female mammal. hence the base for the insult as your used it.


    you never go full retard when denying how you use language, you of all people should know this.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    umm... yeah. the literal definition is gender specific; large female mammal. hence the base for the insult as your used it.


    you never go full retard when denying how you use language, you of all people should know this.
    So anytime you call someone a bitch its a "gender pejorative" because it means female dog? That term is used for multiple sexes these days...

    Its sad when people go full blown retard about the use of a word and assume that it suddenly means something more. The last thing this forum needs is a concern over politically correct speech.

  9. #39
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Jesus, are the only people we can insult straight white men without it meaning that we are bigots/racists?

    I use cow to insult women that piss me off, bitch for both genders, cocksuckers for the guys that piss me off...I guess I could tone it down to just calling everyone a douchebag...but wouldn't that just get BORING after a while?
    Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

  10. #40
    Just finished, will post thoughts on spoiler thread tomorrow. On the topic of release dates: hardback and paperback have always had different release dates, so why shouldn't ebooks too? Ebook release would make most sense to be same date (of after) the paperback release.

    What's next complaining about cinema and digital download dates not being the same?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    Jesus, are the only people we can insult straight white men without it meaning that we are bigots/racists?

    I use cow to insult women that piss me off, bitch for both genders, cocksuckers for the guys that piss me off...I guess I could tone it down to just calling everyone a douchebag...but wouldn't that just get BORING after a while?
    Nope. It too is gender pejorative. Women are by far the most common douche-rs.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Just finished, will post thoughts on spoiler thread tomorrow. On the topic of release dates: hardback and paperback have always had different release dates, so why shouldn't ebooks too? Ebook release would make most sense to be same date (of after) the paperback release.

    What's next complaining about cinema and digital download dates not being the same?
    That's the best point i've seen yet RB, but her reasoning isn't the same that has a paperback done after a hard cover, it has to do with one thing and that's MoL getting ranked top on NYT. It's not about money, if it was i'd respect it a lot more as you should know...

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Parmenio View Post
    That's the best point i've seen yet RB, but her reasoning isn't the same that has a paperback done after a hard cover, it has to do with one thing and that's MoL getting ranked top on NYT. It's not about money, if it was i'd respect it a lot more as you should know...
    Whereas more people would respect protecting her late husband's legacy over making more money from him. Even if money were the reason, PR-sense would say to say its about legacy. If you respect the money logic, you should also respect its her decision to make as she pleases. What would Howard Roark say?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Whereas more people would respect protecting her late husband's legacy over making more money from him. Even if money were the reason, PR-sense would say to say its about legacy. If you respect the money logic, you should also respect its her decision to make as she pleases. What would Howard Roark say?
    I don't know how you get to "more people would respect protecting her late husband's legacy" thing, a lot seem really pissed off at not being able to get the ebook regardless of the reasons. I care little for BS power-rankings in general so I'm not one who likes things such as legacy, RJ's legacy is cemented with what he was able to do when alive, the idea that people try to pimp a legacy when dead is odd to me, dead is dead. But I will stipulate that I am the odd man out and that many people really care about things that I don't care about, I still think it's silly, but such is life...

    Also I know that it's her decision, but I don't have to respect it and I don't. BS convinced her to move the date up in the first place, as far as your concerned his intervention is unwarranted, he was obviously troubled by it enough to do what he could to move it up and also explain it to everyone in the world why it happened. All we need to do is make peace with it, which I did, but I still love a good tweaking here and there...

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Just finished, will post thoughts on spoiler thread tomorrow. On the topic of release dates: hardback and paperback have always had different release dates, so why shouldn't ebooks too? Ebook release would make most sense to be same date (of after) the paperback release.

    What's next complaining about cinema and digital download dates not being the same?
    I don't mind if the e-book had the same price as the hardback (well not much). The point is that this was deliberately delayed. The analogy of cinema/digital download isn't the same at all. A more accurate analogy would be the maker of a game making it CD only for the first 6 months and then only later can it be downloaded from their servers digitally.

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    I don't mind if the e-book had the same price as the hardback (well not much). The point is that this was deliberately delayed. The analogy of cinema/digital download isn't the same at all. A more accurate analogy would be the maker of a game making it CD only for the first 6 months and then only later can it be downloaded from their servers digitally.
    That analogy would hold if you need the CD play the game, and with the digital download you did not.

    The hardback (you need the book to read it), the e-book can be read without the annoying book. The e-reader is just like an easier to manage book to hall around (that has tons of other books on it, to boot).

    The point is:

    People would buy hardback then e-book.

    People would not buy CD, then digital download. (unless the above condition i gave was true.)

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    A more accurate analogy would be the maker of a game making it CD only for the first 6 months and then only later can it be downloaded from their servers digitally.
    Gamers consider themselves lucky if we can get a physical game online DRM free within 6 months of release. CD Projekt Red (witcher series) is perhaps the only AAA publisher that does this and they have only been around a few years.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  18. #48
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    I would have prefered being able to get the e-book before the hardcover. I must say I don't quite get this whole thing about pricing content on the basis of the medium it uses. It's faux transparancy pricing obviously as there is no fixed book price for dead-tree. Or movies on DVD for that matter.
    Congratulations America

  19. #49
    I don't know if we had another thread for this, but I wanted to give my thoughts after having read A Memory of Light. LOTS OF SPOILERS BELOW.


    At first after having finished the book, I was like that wasn't too bad, and I really loved the ending. However, as everything set in; I couldn't help myself feel more and more dissappointed with how it was resolved.


    For one, I didn't get to see the epic things that I dreamed up as a fan boy, and that is Cauthon working with Iturlude, scheming plans together, the battles seemed all a wash, I didn't feel the generals did anything particularly amazing.


    Second and more serious criticism is everything felt rushed. Padan Fain dies lamely, he's made up as a such a big, brewing threat, that both the light and shadow fear (namely the embodiment of chaos), and Mat just kills him in a few paragraphs, and he doesn't really do much. So that story line is wrapped up. Logain, I never really feel reached the height of his glory, I didn't feel him consolidate the black tower, him over throwing Taim was so quick. All the major plot lines were just resolved, they were just resolved and not climatically. It's like paying for a prostitute, you get it done, and the climax happen but it isn't the same. It was all very frustrating and didn't do the series the justice it deserved. Aside from the ending (which I believe Jordan wrote verbatim, I was unimpressed, and a bit disappointed. and kinda sad.)


    The prospect of Rand being able to control his Taverness or manipulate the pattern conciously is pretty cool.




    P.S.
    Graendal was the one after all, which was my guess (after realizing it couldn't have been Lanfear).
    Last edited by Lebanese Dragon; 09-03-2015 at 02:34 AM.

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Gamers consider themselves lucky if we can get a physical game online DRM free within 6 months of release. CD Projekt Red (witcher series) is perhaps the only AAA publisher that does this and they have only been around a few years.
    I don't care about DRM free - the comparison was clearly about not being able to play the game at all. Games can come out and day 1 be DLed. If they have DRM - fine but the point is you can still play it without physically picking it up. Not the same with the fiasco.

  21. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    I don't care about DRM free - the comparison was clearly about not being able to play the game at all. Games can come out and day 1 be DLed. If they have DRM - fine but the point is you can still play it without physically picking it up. Not the same with the fiasco.
    The point being that a digital ebook release is akin to releasing a video game DRM free, because DRM protections on an ebook are next to pointless.

    Digital Day 1 releases for console games is also a relatively new move by Microsoft and Sony (especially considering the age of this thread). The book industry has always been behind other forms of media.


    -----

    On the topic of the series, I started with prequel to the series, and I'm about to wrap up book 2. Author so far has a very special talent for making you hate all the characters. Daes Dae'mar, Daes Dae'mar EVERYWHERE!


    We've had 3 different collections of The Wheel of Time donated to the library recently, and all of them stop at book 8. I have since found a well used paperback copy of book 9 but still, kinda curious for what happens with 8 or 9 to make that a popular stopping point.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 09-02-2015 at 11:54 PM.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  22. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    The point being that a digital ebook release is akin to releasing a video game DRM free, because DRM protections on an ebook are next to pointless.

    Digital Day 1 releases for console games is also a relatively new move by Microsoft and Sony (especially considering the age of this thread). The book industry has always been behind other forms of media.

    After digging around in my memory, Tor went completely DRM free slightly before Memory of Light was released. Thats likely why I made the comparison.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  23. #53
    I believe you just replied to yourself. And uh yeah... book 8 is awful, probably the worst in the series. However once you get that far you are going to feel obligated to finish the series. Nothing is quite as bad as book 8 though.

  24. #54
    I did quote myself, to correct my original assumption concerning a post I made ~2.5 years ago. I felt an edit after 2 hours wasn't enough.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  25. #55
    Without trying to give spoilers book 8 is weak but sets up book 9 which is one of the best. Towards the end of the series it alternates between good (odd-numbered) and bad (even-numbered) books. 8 and 10 are weak, 7, 9 and 11 are stronger. 6 was the last undoubtedly good even numbered book fully written by Jordan. Part of the issue is that by this stage there are so many threads going on that books 8 and 10 kind of provide a step to the next book (and a reflection on the last one) rather than being a full story in their own right.

    12-14 were co-written by Sanderson so are a different style.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Without trying to give spoilers book 8 is weak but sets up book 9 which is one of the best. Towards the end of the series it alternates between good (odd-numbered) and bad (even-numbered) books. 8 and 10 are weak, 7, 9 and 11 are stronger. 6 was the last undoubtedly good even numbered book fully written by Jordan. Part of the issue is that by this stage there are so many threads going on that books 8 and 10 kind of provide a step to the next book (and a reflection on the last one) rather than being a full story in their own right.

    12-14 were co-written by Sanderson so are a different style.
    Do you feel those last few co-written books seemed a bit rushed? And did you have any similar regrets that I did on the resolution of some of the plot lines?

  27. #57
    On the one hand yes they did feel a bit rushed, on the other hand I think the other books had gotten a bit tangled and slow and he resolved it well. It's also worth remembering that Jordan was planning the three books Sanderson wrote to be written as just one book - that I feel would have been even more rushed.
    Spoiler:
    I actually felt at one point in A Memory of Light that Tarmon Gai'don was dragging out and killing off a lot more protaganists relative to how Jordan would have written it. Yes I know Tarmon Gai'don was meant to be a major and apocalyptic battle but Sanderson is a more modern writer inspired by George RR Martin in the lifespan of many of his characters and Jordan had typically wrapped up major battles in a chapter or two. I found the death of Egwene al'Vere especially to be both well written and entirely shocking - I find it hard to believe Jordan intended the death of one of the major characters from the very start. Though credit to him if he did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  28. #58
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    The strange thing with that series is that I have read several of the earlier books more than once, but the last books I hardly read at all and I had this intense feeling of big blaahh with the last chapters. The ending was so dissatisfying.
    Congratulations America

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    The strange thing with that series is that I have read several of the earlier books more than once, but the last books I hardly read at all and I had this intense feeling of big blaahh with the last chapters. The ending was so dissatisfying.
    I disagree the very end I felt was well done. The poetic symettry (which I think Jordan wrote) between Thom telling us how a Glee Man ends his act while the audience still wants more, beautifully parallelled in how Jordan wrote the last chapter of the book. And yes I do want more.. I want more of Rand (what's he doing), I want more of Matt, and mostly I want more of Robert Jordan to tell me how it all plays out. It really saddens me. I agree with RandBlade that yes the book may either have been further rushed if combined into one epic book, but he did say it was going to be twice as long if not more than his other books. So maybe it would have been comparably rushed but perhaps better and more climatically executed at parts, which I feel it lacked. It's like you spend so much time building these threats up, building up certain characters, certain dynamics. Padan Fain, LTT being in Rand's head (albeit basically resolved, but I'd have loved if toward the very end there was some comment toward LTT from Rand, putting to rest his mistakes, or thanking his memories for helping him get this far), the tension between Ishmael and Rand. or Lanfear, everything is just so quickly resolved... all of their plotting, twisting and turning, it felt for naught. They should have been presented more ominously, on the verge of executing their plans (based on earlier books) and for them to be thwarted narrowly. So many issues I can't vent them all here. I liked the book, but the more I think about it, the more frustrated with Sanders for being so linear. He was on a mission to write the thing, he needed to put himself in the world instead.

  30. #60
    I don't think its possible not to feel a bit anticlimactic after a long series, especially after a long series you've been emotionally invested in for decades.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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