Hillary Rodham Clinton
She's just resigned her office as Secretary of State. Job well done, deserving of many accolades that can't be diminished by single incidents (Benghazi).
I hope she takes several months off the fast-track to rest and rejuvenate. She's going to need that energy in 2016, when she becomes the first female President of the United States.
Well that was less of a suck up then the Senators at the hearing.
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I think she did a fairly good job as SoS, but I find it highly unlikely that she'll put herself through the presidential campaign process. Her health doesn't seem to be great as is, and a presidential campaign is far more gruesome than being a SoS.
Hope is the denial of reality
Does this mean we can look forward to some kind of howling maniac vs bland non-entity presidential campaign in 2016?
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Assuming the economy is doing ok in 2016, I'm going to guess we'll get some charismatic Republican governor who's ambiguous on at least some social issues and a left-of-center Democrat who'll claim to care about the middle class.
Hope is the denial of reality
Oh wow liberals finally admit that she was awful when it comes to Benghazi. Did hell freeze over?Originally Posted by GGT
Let's talk about hell freezing over after conservatives like Bush, Cheney, or *McCain* officially and openly admit that the war in Iraq was misrepresented, misguided, mistaken.....and that no tactical surge in a stupid war can undo its overall Awful.
Saddam is dead. A man who used biological weapons, fired on American aircraft, violated our terms and funded terrorists is dead. There were quite a few blunders in the Iraq war but him being dead is still a great thing. As far as misrepresentation - we did find WMD in Iraq. They were just really really old.Let's talk about hell freezing over after conservatives like Bush, Cheney, or *McCain* officially and openly admit that the war in Iraq was misrepresented, misguided, mistaken.....and that no tactical surge in a stupid war can undo its overall Awful.
How exactly was he funding terrorists when they hated each other's ideologies to the core? And why exactly aren't there any legitimate sources that confirm WMDs? If you have them, I would love to see them.Saddam is dead. A man who used biological weapons, fired on American aircraft, violated our terms and funded terrorists is dead. There were quite a few blunders in the Iraq war but him being dead is still a great thing. As far as misrepresentation - we did find WMD in Iraq. They were just really really old.
Praise the man who seeks the truth, but run from the one who has found it.
Hussein used chemical, not biological weapons.Saddam is dead. A man who used biological weapons, fired on American aircraft, violated our terms and funded terrorists is dead. There were quite a few blunders in the Iraq war but him being dead is still a great thing. As far as misrepresentation - we did find WMD in Iraq. They were just really really old.
Hope is the denial of reality
How is that* an argument. Is now every country that is not dance to the US tune prone to an invasion?Saddam is dead. A man who used biological weapons, fired on American aircraft, violated our terms and funded terrorists is dead. There were quite a few blunders in the Iraq war but him being dead is still a great thing. As far as misrepresentation - we did find WMD in Iraq. They were just really really old.
*The think in bold.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
You got it in one. France will be singing the Star Spangled Banner and eating hot dogs 'n freedum fries by the time the decade's out.
Well, it was not Our Terms, it was the terms of the cease fire with Iraq. If France gets into a conflict like the one in GW I with allied forces then violates those terms, I'll go get the grill ready for those hotdogs.
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Either way, the war was sold on the pretext of non-existing WMD programs, which was based on either a lie, or incompetence.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
A lie or incompetence of several countries intelligence agencies it seems.
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Sorry, but if someone like Lewk speaks about "our terms" it really has the taste of US terms.
Well maybe the lie of one countries intelligence agency and the incompetence of several other countries intelligence agencies?
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
Yer taking Lewk's ill use of words as gospel?
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Over here, the people were pretty pissed off about our government claiming that the US intelligence was reliable and supported the war based on that incorrect intelligence. It was a hot potato following the 2006 elections, too. It has since been independently investigated, and the conclusions were (among other things) that our intelligence services actually didn't fail (or at least not as badly), but that they were ignored and our government basically blindly accepting whatever the Americans said (which was not reliable). Unfortunately, even then there seems to be a lack of people actually admitting they were wrong - has that happened over there yet? Considering admitting you were wrong is where this discussion started
Was it? I thought the issue was violating UN resolutions, which were implemented after the ceasefire, not a part of it.
IIRC he supported Palestinian terrorists.
Truth of all your reasons aside, if that was a good enough reason to invade, why the need to make up a story on WMDs? They only used the other reasons after, it seems.Saddam is dead. A man who used biological weapons, fired on American aircraft, violated our terms and funded terrorists is dead. There were quite a few blunders in the Iraq war but him being dead is still a great thing. As far as misrepresentation - we did find WMD in Iraq. They were just really really old.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
The intelligence in question was similar for the US, France, Britain, and Russia. Two out of those four didn't exactly have a reason to lie. The intelligence was "flawed" because Hussein went out of his way to make it look like he still had WMD.
Hope is the denial of reality
Yet still, say, the UN speech was filled with errors that were pointed out by analysts in several departments and intelligence agencies.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
I think most over here admit the WMD finding was in error.
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Kinda backfired on him didn't it? What is your analysis on that Loki? Did he think he could bluff and that the US would not have the balls to go in?
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Sure, but that didn't invalidate the underlying intelligence.
Every single specialist I've read on this matter says that Hussein was playing a double game where he was trying to convince the US that he disarmed while convincing Iran that he still had WMD (to deter Iran from attacking). I'm not sure how he expected that game to succeed, but it clearly didn't.
Hope is the denial of reality
Sure, but that pretty much invalidates the concept of intelligence if you only pick the parts you like. Plus the discussion started about "misrepresented, misguided, mistaken" which is still valid, then.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
The presentation in question made certain things seem more certain than they were.
You said everything was based on either incompetence or a lie. Since the intelligence agencies actually believed that Iraq had WMD, it wasn't a lie. And considering how far Hussein was willing to go to make people think that he had WMD, I don't think it's incompetence for the intelligence agencies to buy into Hussein's rhetoric.
Hope is the denial of reality
Hillary will be 69 by the next election and 73 by the end of the term. 77 by the end of the second if she went for it.
The batons already been passed onto the next generation.
When you invade another country and we beat your ass back your damn right we can set terms. And if you don't abide by them I have no problems with a second ass kicking.
I realize that was the pretext for the war but I hope this helps explain why I'm still OK with the war even though there weren't new WMD.
In case there's any doubt what Lewk means, he violated the terms of his peace agreement after invading Kuwait. Violating a peace agreement is a cassus belli.
Actually it is not, all wars are illegal unless in self defense or sanctioned by the UNSC.
As for just wars, I said it back then and I will repeat it: taking out Iraq was incomprehensible and incredibly stupid as even a blind person could have seen the real danger to the world right next to it. How come we're still talking about the assumed support for terrorists by Saddam where we all know the actual money that enabled Al Queda came from Saudi Arabia?
Congratulations America
I thought the war with Iraq was still on, just a ceasefire was in play, thus hostilities could have resumed at any point?
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