Habemus Papam

[GGT]

"We have a new pope".

Some interesting firsts: first from the west/south/Americas, first from Argentina, first to hold office with an emeritus living pope, first Jesuit priest, first to take the name of St. Francis.

First conclave in the modern social media era, with more than one Twitter feed, and more than one smart phone app. Apparently, it's also the first pope to first ask for the people's prayers and blessings, before bestowing papal blessings.

Thoughts?


*I'm not Roman Catholic, but am fascinated by the politics and doctrine of a church that has over ONE BILLION members across the globe. As an American woman, I see the RC church as an outdated patriarch...that has spent too many years protecting bad men in their leadership, and promoting adulterers and pedophiles up the ranks of hierarchical power.

As a non-catholic, it's confusing to watch the church deny priesthood to women, fight against "altar girls", or forbid nuns or lay-women from all sorts of things.....while praying to the Virgin Mary.

[Hazir]

First of all; adultery?

I think it's quite fascinating as well. Given the options I think they could have done worse. I was sort blown away by his choice of name when it was announce by that cardinal who appeared to be suffering from parkinson's.

[Dreadnaught]

I do think the church is going to have to do a better job on women in real positions of authority.

It was sorta odd how muted the applause was when he first came out on the balcony. As if a bunch of people were pausing to think/say, "who is he again?"

[Lewkowski]

"We have a new pope".

Some interesting firsts: first from the west/south/Americas, first from Argentina, first to hold office with an emeritus living pope, first Jesuit priest, first to take the name of St. Francis.

First conclave in the modern social media era, with more than one Twitter feed, and more than one smart phone app. Apparently, it's also the first pope to first ask for the people's prayers and blessings, before bestowing papal blessings.

Thoughts?


*I'm not Roman Catholic, but am fascinated by the politics and doctrine of a church that has over ONE BILLION members across the globe. As an American woman, I see the RC church as an outdated patriarch...that has spent too many years protecting bad men in their leadership, and promoting adulterers and pedophiles up the ranks of hierarchical power.

As a non-catholic, it's confusing to watch the church deny priesthood to women, fight against "altar girls", or forbid nuns or lay-women from all sorts of things.....while praying to the Virgin Mary.

Yeah the whole protecting pedophiles is beyond sick. How anyone can call themselves a Christian after making the decision to cover up for pedophiles is beyond me. Frankly those who knowingly shuffled rapists around should face the death penalty just like the monsters who did the crime.

[Hazir]

I do think the church is going to have to do a better job on women in real positions of authority.

It was sorta odd how muted the applause was when he first came out on the balcony. As if a bunch of people were pausing to think/say, "who is he again?"

Not really that strange, most people who had followed the pre-conclave discussions was sort of expecting cardinal Scola to be announced as the new pope since there had been five votes only. Then we got the French cardinal announcing him in a way that made it real hard to hear his name (it was a matter of luck I could distill Bergoglio out of what he said and then 'Franciscum'). But most likely the people in the square hadn't heard at all who was elected. And then this man came out who nobody knew. So people were trying to figure out who the man on the balcony was. I think the problem was solved when he started talking.

I am not a catholic nor a christian but he came off as sympathetic from the get go. 'Brothers and sisters, good evening'. Such simple words and still so totally unexpected.

[Dreadnaught]

Agreed.

I wonder how long they think about their Papal names. It's sort of like making up a rap name.

[Hazir]

Agreed.

I wonder how long they think about their Papal names. It's sort of like making up a rap name.

They can in theory prepare for a choice of name for their entire life. In reality they have a couple of minutes for it; the time between getting the vote that makes them pope-elect and the questions 'do you accept your election' and 'by what name will you be known'.

I see Cameron had to be a terrible bore again today by replying to something that Francis said in his capacity as Archbishop of Buenos Aires in a service commemorating the fallen Argentineans. What a petty man that Cameron is.

[GGT]

I am not a catholic nor a christian but he came off as sympathetic from the get go. 'Brothers and sisters, good evening'. Such simple words and still so totally unexpected.

Agreed. I was impressed he asked the crowd to bless him first. A crowd that size joined in silent prayer was also impressive.

I was prepared for some long-winded "speech", but he apparently blew past the Cardinals (who usually get first hand-shakes or whatever) because he knew people were standing in the rain. He also refused the Pope Mobile to ride the bus, carried his own bags, paid his hotel bill, and dismissed several of the cleaning staff at his new living quarters. I've never seen that kind of humility from a pope.



As for names, I don't really know the difference between a Franciscan or Jesuit. But I read that last time around, he knew conclave votes put him in 2nd place...and he told his sister he didn't want to be pope (at that time). So he's had a few years to think about the possibility, and conjure up a name, I guess? Or maybe that's something every Cardinal has in the back of their minds, even Jesuits who don't expect to become Cardinals?

[Hazir]

Agreed. I was impressed he asked the crowd to bless him first. A crowd that size joined in silent prayer was also impressive.

I was prepared for some long-winded "speech", but he apparently blew past the Cardinals (who usually get first hand-shakes or whatever) because he knew people were standing in the rain. He also refused the Pope Mobile to ride the bus, carried his own bags, paid his hotel bill, and dismissed several of the cleaning staff at his new living quarters. I've never seen that kind of humility from a pope.



As for names, I don't really know the difference between a Franciscan or Jesuit. But I read that last time around, he knew conclave votes put him in 2nd place...and he told his sister he didn't want to be pope (at that time). So he's had a few years to think about the possibility, and conjure up a name, I guess? Or maybe that's something every Cardinal has in the back of their minds, even Jesuits who don't expect to become Cardinals?

I understand it's very unusual for the runner up of the previous conclave to be elected. Also for a big chunk of the cardinals it was their first conclave. I think this man just ticked all the right boxes.

[Steely Glint]

Wouldn't the runner up from last time be long dead in normal circumstances?

[Hazir]

Wouldn't the runner up from last time be long dead in normal circumstances?

Not always, JPII's papacy was very long compared to his predecessors'. Even if you take out John Paul I who didn't even make it past a year. What is more likely is that they are no longer allowed to be in the conclave again because cardinals over 80 can't participate.

Makes you wonder if Benedict had taken it into account when he resigned; if he'd waited a few more years Francis would have been locked out.

[Lebanese Dragon]

*I'm not Roman Catholic, but am fascinated by the politics and doctrine of a church that has over ONE BILLION members across the globe. As an American woman, I see the RC church as an outdated patriarch...that has spent too many years protecting bad men in their leadership, and promoting adulterers and pedophiles up the ranks of hierarchical power.

As a non-catholic, it's confusing to watch the church deny priesthood to women, fight against "altar girls", or forbid nuns or lay-women from all sorts of things.....while praying to the Virgin Mary.

I'm not a RC, at least not a pure one, but this is most definitely I get my information from general media sources point of view.

The Catholic Church has done a lot more than just hide pedophiles, that's just a *hot topic* and red flag action they've done. It's not something to deny, or the idea of spreading aids is morally better than using condoms. Or the crusades or any number of atrocities. These are not defining features, but rather features one must accept with the whole. These are views an actions that hopefully the church will overcome (as clearly they are in violent contradiction with it's own doctrine of piece, anti pedophilia etc..).

On the other hand the church is a source for hope, strength, aid, and moral and personal guidance that is I think is very positive. PRomoting moral behavoir, healthy life styles, developing more meaningful relationships as opposed to sex-based relationships. I Think these attributes very positive work the church does, and people's lives will benefit from it. In addition, the enormous amount of charity that the Church inspires people to give.

That said I don't think this world needs a church or a religion to be sucessful or moral (moral in the loose societal definition- which i make distinctions.) Society at one time had use for churches to unite them, and now I think we don't need it anymore.


Lastly, on your comments about no-woman priests. The elevation or high-lighting of Mary may have been a calculated more in order to increase Catholic conversion rates, or make conversion gentler. A lot of time the people they were now subjugating used to worship a female deity, Mary was a useful substitution for them, and made it easier for them to accept catholicism. That said Catholics do distinguish between praying (asking), and worshipping. They contend to only worship God, but they have no problem having a conversation with dead saints or angels (which is what prayer fundamental is). They are very clear on this distinction. They don't worship Idols, the painting and statures they have, they use them as references inthe same way the word God references God. They're pointers.

Lastly on the no female priests, this is largely inspired by the fact Jesus chose no female apostles. They made a rule to reflect this. I personally don't think it's right, God can call anyone to do anything, and if he does they're going to do it fine. I won't be surprised if their is a reversal on this stance as less young men are opting to become priests.

Anyway there's your answers, good or bad that's the Catholic church.

[GGT]

Pope Francis has been named Time's Person of the Year. Snowden was a close second. I think they made the right choice.

What do you think?

[Timbuk2]

Thoughts?

*... stretch ... yaaawwwnn ... smack smack ...*

Muuuuh.

Eh? What? There's a new what? Oh. A new pope.

*... zzz .. z . zzzz .. zz ...*

[RandBlade]

Ditto.

[earthJoker]

The Time

[Dreadnaught]

Ah, the Time Person of the Year. The annual ritual in which we remember that Time Magazine exists.

[GGT]

What's wrong with a Time's Person of the Year? Is it much different from dictionaries/encyclopedias designating a Word of the Year? Or Forbes naming the richest Person of the Year?

[Hazir]

There is nothing wrong with it, it's just not very relevant to anybody.

[GGT]

There is nothing wrong with it, it's just not very relevant to anybody.

How about The Advocate? Is that a more "relevant" publication?

http://www.advocate.com/year-review/...r-pope-francis