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Thread: Health Care Debate

  1. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Are stats that hard to understand? According to this study, 70% engage in the desired behavior as a consequence of the policy, in contrast to 50% normally. How badly does one have to understand stats to not the see the difference between those two numbers?
    The results are easy to read Loki. What you are failing to understand is that 30% is going to find inself in and create far more problems than the other group's 50%.
    Thats the shortcoming of the abstinence program.

  2. #392
    I'd rather 50% make those mistakes than 70%...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    The results are easy to read Loki. What you are failing to understand is that 30% is going to find inself in and create far more problems than the other group's 50%.
    Thats the shortcoming of the abstinence program.
    According to what evidence? Do you know the results of this study before it it even concluded?

  3. #393
    You want statistical proof? There is a 100% guarantee that if you practice abstinence you will neither receive nor transmit a STD (none of that "it's not sex if we don't fuck" stuff) and a 100% guarantee that you won't be surprised by an unintended pregnancy.

    All the rest is gambling. Matters not if you're the gambler trying to play the odds. The House always wins, it's just a matter of time. Who is the House? Mother Nature and Father Time. The deck is stacked against you. The more you play, the greater are the chances you will eventually lose. Don't let modern science or chemistry fool you just yet.

    The Bunny ranch in Reno, and the red light district in Amsterdam might lead you to think sex has no strings, because they screen the prostitutes for diseases. It seems safe, everyone says it's safe, why wouldn't it be safe? Right. Fuck away. Then go home and tell everyone you're safe. Condoms make everything safe.


  4. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Right, I can just see you saying this to your daughter. Such wise counsel. And your wife agreeing.
    My daughter will be kept safely indoors and away from men until I'm dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Citation needed
    Don't you first need a clarification of what "fuck up" means in this context?

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Never mind, the Eye started a thread about the whole martyrdom crucifixion thing. I think he felt guilty about joking that you sold your soul, or something.
    No guilt. I just saw people doing stuff to dread that was done to me and I think its a cheap trick that side-steps the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Well I didn't sell it, I just rent it out from time to time.
    Quote Originally Posted by littlelolligagged View Post
    You don't need it anyway. I don't miss mine a bit.
    After a while, you forget what it was like to have one....
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  5. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Stupid Left Wing Media giving the Health Care Bill a free ride again
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  6. #396
    Boutique and Concierge services also require an up-front fee, like a retainer, usually several thousands of dollars. So let's see, you can't tell the difference from routine vs dire vs emergency services; you don't know much about boutique or concierge services; you don't know much about patient records or who 'owns' films; and you think the status quo was working just fine......
    And the poor people already used emergency rooms for crap like a broken arm.

    The issue is that the level of health care the middle class has now will be diminished as the government forces more people into the health care system. You will see a lot more boutique service doctors going into business. And if congress actually honestly does go through with the medicare cuts and doesn't "doctor fix" it then you will see grandma kicked out since trying to find a doctor to take medicare patients will be a lot harder.

    So you are advocating rationing of health care? Thank you for your honesty - most conservatives like to pretend we haven't been doing that. But by pricing people out of the system, thats exactly what we've been doing.
    Everything is rationed.

  7. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    The results are easy to read Loki. What you are failing to understand is that 30% is going to find inself in and create far more problems than the other group's 50%.
    Thats the shortcoming of the abstinence program.
    Well, possibly. As you kept saying before now, there's no data speaking to that one way or another. I'd actually assumed, before you tracked the cite down, that the study was a bit larger and they were actually measuring a large drop in teen pregnancy rates.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  8. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Well, possibly. As you kept saying before now, there's no data speaking to that one way or another. I'd actually assumed, before you tracked the cite down, that the study was a bit larger and they were actually measuring a large drop in teen pregnancy rates.
    I confess I'd assumed that too. Like OG said, gotta go past the headlines....
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    A recent study showed that abstinence only programs that omit religous content do in fact work. And that is true - the only way to surely avoid STDs and pregnancy is to not have sex. Not sure about that psych stuff... one man's harmful psychological effect is another man's "glory days."
    Work better than American programs or Dutch programs, or even come close to the latter?
    Congratulations America

  10. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Work better than American programs or Dutch programs, or even come close to the latter?
    Read on. I have no idea.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  11. #401
    yo to be honest, i hope the world ends 2012 cause life is gonna suck. That is my little food for though.

  12. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    And the poor people already used emergency rooms for crap like a broken arm.
    Unless they have an Urgent Care Center (or a nifty orthopedic center with radiologists and surgeons like my town) the ED is appropriate for a fracture. It's using the ED for ear infections and sore throats that racks up costs.

    The issue is that the level of health care the middle class has now will be diminished as the government forces more people into the health care system. You will see a lot more boutique service doctors going into business. And if congress actually honestly does go through with the medicare cuts and doesn't "doctor fix" it then you will see grandma kicked out since trying to find a doctor to take medicare patients will be a lot harder.
    By 'level of care' for middle class do you mean quality will be diminished? Doubtful. Their costs for insurance premiums and copays may go up, but they probably should anyway. That's part of the rally cry from the right---make the true costs transparent, get rid of hidden costs, get people involved in their care, take some burden off the employer.

    I just posted an article that PA teachers are bitching that they have to pay $100/month for family coverage, with $20 copays for office visits. The taxpayers pick up the rest. They want more pay, to offset their higher contributions. Their union won't budge, so districts are reducing busing and student programs.

    Knowing how you loathe unions, it's odd you can't see that large businesses face the same issue. They offer perks like insurance and write it off their taxes. They get a subsidy from feds to help pay for senior meds, and get to skim that off their profits to pay less taxes. No one knows the real costs, because everyone is subsided (by employer or government). Billions of dollars going to the insurance industry is money misplaced IMO, they suck as administrators. At least now they'll be forced to change their rationing model.


    Medicare has problems, how would you fix it? If it turns out millions of seniors use the ED for primary care (because JCAH laws say no one can be denied care at a hospital that took federal funds), it could force their hand to beef up provider reimbursements, which would mean higher taxes or payroll deductions.

    Using scare tactics on granny, that her guv'ment funded care will be gone, is a weird way to say guv'ment programs should get less funding.



    Everything is rationed.
    Use the quote button. It's irritating when you mix comments from two posters like this.

  13. #403
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    A recent study showed that abstinence only programs that omit religous content do in fact work.
    I call bullshit. Where did you read this study? On The Onion?

    Source, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Hey man, I'm not interested in arguing the issue. I think abstinance only is silly. IMHO every girl should get an implanted contraceptive that works until she's 25 or better yet until she gets married and everyone should be encouraged to have as much sex as possible. Probably should work in condoms or something to fight STDS. That and regular STD screenings and treatment. Or something. I can't imagine having too much sex. Can men even do that?
    +1.

    If the government actually did something like this, I wouldn't have to keep moving every time one of my 12 year old... "friends"... gets pregnant.

    And on a completely unrelated note... how old did you say your daughter was?

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Sorry to say, but the truly informed teens would never think a condom or pill will protect them from bad things.
    Damned straight! Everyone knows that's the government's job.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    No one knows the real costs, because everyone is subsided (by employer or government). Billions of dollars going to the insurance industry is money misplaced IMO, they suck as administrators.
    Absolutely! Those billions of dollars should go to the government instead, with their incredible competency in simple administrative tasks.

    And on that note... US Patent and Trademark Office unable to read "upside down" faxes.



    Nah, but we'll be fine. I'm sure *this time will be different* and the government won't find new and interesting ways to fuck-up tasks a drunk monkey could perform. And hell, it's not like health care is a matter of life or death, and government incompetence might actually kill people.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    At least now they'll be forced to change their rationing model.
    You sound like you actually believe that. Haha.

    Well, at least we finally managed to stick it to those evil, heartless insurance companies... by forcing every American to buy health insurance. That'll learn 'em!
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  14. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Young Mage View Post
    yo to be honest, i hope the world ends 2012 cause life is gonna suck. That is my little food for though.
    Why wait for 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    I call bullshit. Where did you read this study? On The Onion?

    Source, please.
    OG posted it somewhere. Read some more of the thread dood - you're treadin' trodden ground.

    +1.

    If the government actually did something like this, I wouldn't have to keep moving every time one of my 12 year old... "friends"... gets pregnant.

    And on a completely unrelated note... how old did you say your daughter was?
    Re-tread again. Weren't you trying to eliminate all the incrimating stuff you wrote in Atari before you were ejected? So why declare your pedophilia here???
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  15. #405
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    OG posted it somewhere. Read some more of the thread dood - you're treadin' trodden ground.
    You mean that post where you proudly declare that "reading a study" is the same thing as "reading a headline?"

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    I don't know. I didn't get past the headline. I seem to recall ... [that reading a headline is as good, if not better than reading the actual study].

    Yeah, I remember that, but I was giving you benefit of the doubt and chose to believe you were smarter than a houseplant. My mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Re-tread again. Weren't you trying to eliminate all the incrimating stuff you wrote in Atari before you were ejected?
    Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    So why declare your pedophilia here???
    Is that you, PR_FLAK?
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  16. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    You mean that post where you proudly declare that "reading a study" is the same thing as "reading a headline?"




    Yeah, I remember that, but I was giving you benefit of the doubt and chose to believe you were smarter than a houseplant. My mistake.



    Have you stopped beating your wife yet?



    Is that you, PR_FLAK?
    Holy Moses you pick up right where you left off, not even breaking stride. Sorry, I'm not interested in sparring. Enjoy your cherries though.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  17. #407
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Enjoy reading your scientific studies headlines.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  18. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Enjoy reading your scientific studies headlines.
    Whoa. More points. Your wit is incredible.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

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