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Thread: Free Willy! (Shamu, that is)

  1. #1

    Default Free Willy! (Shamu, that is)

    In case you had not heard, Sea World lost one of its trainers when a killer whale...well, killed her.

    Now the debate is about zoos and artificial containment of wild animals for the entertainment (or education) of humans.

    Is this an outdated concept, or does it benefit creatures when humans can see exotic animals up close and contribute to their research and longevity?

    I'd start a poll, but my polls suck

  2. #2
    Zoos are very important to the animals and to our civilization. When part of your hard-earned money goes to supporting parks and reserves, it's necessary to showcase what is being preserved to the people who are paying for it yet can't afford to spend a lot of time (if any) in those places. It's one thing to watch Ken Burn's series on national parks and something much more intimate to see the live animal who's species is benefitting from the efforts depicted.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  3. #3
    Who is Ken Burn and should I be embarrassed to ask that?

    I actually love zoos, depending. Was fortunate enough to see the pandas at the National Zoo years ago (before they were sent back to China), and I enjoyed Sea World's dolphin pools. The Shamu Show bothered me a bit.....too much like a circus with trained bears perhaps?

    We have a miniature golf and ice cream place that keeps a penned brown bear, plus a bunch of llamas and misc barnyard animals for the kiddies to pet and feed. That's also a little creepy.

    Expanded natural habitat or large park reserves is one thing, caged animals is another. When it comes to aquatic ocean mammals and fishes, how big would the aquarium have to be?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Who is Ken Burn and should I be embarrassed to ask that?
    You're not a fan of PBS, eh? I'll find a link. He's a very good documentary producer.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  5. #5
    No, am just bad with names. Must be why I like names.

  6. #6
    National Parks, America's Best Idea

    Documentary's Timeline

    This is a series of 6 two hour episodes. Best documentary work I have ever seen.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  7. #7
    I find it very ironic, those that call to "Free Tilly" as a pun on Free Willy. They did "free" Keiko the whale, the star of Free Willy, who had lived in captivity since the age of 2. Died at the age of 26, of pneumonia. Never thrived in the open ocean.

    There are several problems associated with trying to release animals that have been in captivity for years, or from birth.

    One, you have to teach them to hunt and survive in the wild after so much dependence on humans. For many, this is near impossible to learn to eat live food after being fed for years.
    Two, at least in America, you'd have to make sure that the animal is completely healthy. Marine Mammals are regulated by the USDA. Captive animals haven't been exposed to natural conditions, and may develop disease and die in the wild if not healthy. This can also be applied in reverse; you don't want captive whales to pass diseases onto wild ones. Also many large mammals that are in captivity have been there because they have some physical attributes that make it impossible to survive in the wild.

    Third, killer whales are actually from the dolphin family, and are social creatures. They thrive when in pods. The likelihood of a wild pod "adopting" an outside Orca is slim. This is what caused Keiko's demise; the lack of a pod to join caused him to gravitate back towards people, and so had to be kept in a cove watched over by handlers until his death. He never learned to enjoy the freedom that people wanted him to have.


    It's possible to release animals back into the wild, but its hard as hell to, and often ends in sadness.

  8. #8
    Cat, the title was a bit of a play on words, since we have another thread called Free Willy about Human Free Will.

  9. #9
    Sorry, GGT, I didn't mean you specifically. I've seen alot of blogs where people have posted Free Tilly, which is a nice sentiment but the realities are much harsher.

    As far as zoos and aquariums being necessary anymore: I should put a disclaimer that this is the industry I work in. That being said, in a perfect world, man would realize his impact on the Earth and know he needs to be a good steward of it. Since this isn't a perfect world, this places are a great medium for children to see up close the animals they'd never be able to see otherwise. The idea nowadays is to teach the importance of conservation. Seeing an animal up close has a more profound effect on a person than seeing them on television, or reading about them. (Not that it isn't important to learn that way too). I know going to Seaworld as a kid, and whale watching in Maine as a teen, really shaped my ideas of nature and pushed me to that field.
    Also, many zoos and aquariums have research and conservations divisions, that rescue injured animals and rehabilitate them to be placed back in the wild. Their goal is to keep species thriving. With human interactions, animals can become injured. As good stewards of our planet, we should be trying to heal those injured and set them back out into the wild. If an animal is deemed unreleasable to the wild due to extensive injuries, it can become an ambassador to serve as a reminder to the public that we should be careful how we are impacting our planet by our actions.

  10. #10
    I don't know if it provides a benefit to have animals close at hand, for exposure/education, etc. I do think that we shouldn't seek to put most zoo-kept creatures in those relatively tiny environments. As Catgrrl said, though, once they are in that environment, it is often not nice/fair/reasonable to try and put them back in the wild. For the most part, we should probably not be encouraging them to bear offspring in captivity, perpetuating the less-than-ideal captive conditions.

    That ignores the also-undesirable risks of the wild for endangered species we wish to conserve. I don't have an answer to that particular dilemma.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    In case you had not heard, Sea World lost one of its trainers when a killer whale...well, killed her.

    Now the debate is about zoos and artificial containment of wild animals for the entertainment (or education) of humans.

    Is this an outdated concept, or does it benefit creatures when humans can see exotic animals up close and contribute to their research and longevity?

    I'd start a poll, but my polls suck
    #1. Zoos are important in a lot of ways and I don't think this incidient merits a rethinking of their value.

    #2. But Sea World is not a zoo. Maybe this merits re-thinking the training of highly intelligent sea mamals to do tricks for our amusement.
    The Rules
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  12. #12
    Agreed with #2.

    Aquarium, zoo, semantics.

    Does Busch Gardens still have a train ride that goes thru an open area where the animals roam around?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Aquarium, zoo, semantics.
    tricks are not semantics

    Does Busch Gardens still have a train ride that goes thru an open area where the animals roam around?
    No idea.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

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