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Thread: Disgusted

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    More than 2
    I was wrong. There is only 1. From 1998, Phoenix Arizona, when the clinic performed an abortion on a 13 year old. The other case involved the girl's father and sexual abuse. The worker there failed to notify the authorities of the abuse. Which is not the same of your original claim of "not tell the parents"

    Edit:

    After reading the source article, the abuse was coming from the foster father who took her to planned parenthood. This was again a case of the abuse not being reported to the proper authorities.
    So thats zero cited cases of planned parenthood performing abortions without parent concent or approval where required by law.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  2. #62
    http://www.lifenews.com/2010/12/08/state-5726/

    "The case was brought by parents whose minor daughter had an abortion at a Planned Parenthood facility without their knowledge after being sexually abused by her adult coach.

    The parents allege that Planned Parenthood failed to comply with the statute requiring reports of known or suspected child abuse as well as Ohio’s parental consent statute."

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    http://www.lifenews.com/2010/12/08/state-5726/

    "The case was brought by parents whose minor daughter had an abortion at a Planned Parenthood facility without their knowledge after being sexually abused by her adult coach.

    The parents allege that Planned Parenthood failed to comply with the statute requiring reports of known or suspected child abuse as well as Ohio’s parental consent statute."
    Hurley also told the newspaper there is one more issue remaining to be resolved in courts — the matter of whether Planned Parenthood violated state law requiring abortion centers to notify parents when their teenager daughter is considering an abortion.
    [...]
    The girl in the case provided an incorrect phone number to Planned Parenthood officials for notification. Instead of giving the abortion center her parents’ phone, she gave the number for her 22-year-old boyfriend — her soccer coach John Haller.
    So we are possibly up to 1, nationwide, and you're staking your claim "that they get away with it thousands of times" based on this (thus far) unresolved case.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  4. #64
    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/par...he-state-line/

    "In the other twelve states, where an abortionist can perform this invasive procedure on a minor without either of that girl’s parents knowing, it doesn’t matter if the girl is a local resident or from out of state. It also doesn’t matter if your daughter is accompanied across state lines by the coercive adult father of her child -- your grandchild can be aborted without you even being aware of it.

    Moreover, this could have been stopped by now.

    In 2005 and 2006, both houses of Congress passed versions of the Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act (CIANA). This measure would have made it illegal to transport a minor to another state for the purpose of avoiding a state’s parental notification or consent for abortion law. It would have protected parents’ rights and protected girls from adult abusers who don’t want evidence of their abuse to survive.

    In accordance with normal lawmaking procedure, the slightly different versions of the bills passed by the House and Senate were to be worked out by a conference committee so that a single bill could go to the President to sign. But Senate Democrats, led by then Minority Leader Harry Reid, blocked the conference committee from being called.

    Attempting to reassert the rights of the majority, the House again passed the CIANA legislation in 2006. Senator Harry Reid responded by staging a filibuster so that the bill could not even be considered by the Senate. When a cloture vote was taken to end the filibuster and allow a vote, Senator Reid twisted enough Democrats’ arms so that only 57 Senators agreed – three short of the 60 needed. A minority of pro-abortion zealots in the Senate prevented CIANA’s passage."

    Without a doubt a big group of liberals do not want parental consent or notification laws for children getting abortions.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    So we are possibly up to 1, nationwide, and you're staking your claim "that they get away with it thousands of times based on this (thus far) unresolved case.
    I'm sure there are others but in the VAST majority of cases how would anyone find out? The child will probably not speak unless some complications arise. Planned parenthood definitely has no reason to report themselves. Its like saying jay walking is super rare because few people are fined, or ticketed for it. When the reality is it occurs all the time. I'm not comparing the two in terms of the wrongness just in reporting.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    how would anyone find out?
    [...]
    no reason to report themselves.
    When are you going to stop having daily sex with hamsters?
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  7. #67
    She indicated the abortion practitioner for Planned Parenthood of Southwest Ohio breached the legal requirement by not meeting with the girl 24 hours prior to the abortion, as stipulated by the state’s informed consent statute, to explain to her the alternatives available to her.

    “I think it’s the first time ever Planned Parenthood has been in breach of that order,” Brain Hurley, the attorney representing the teen, told the Cincinnati Inquirer newspaper. “The question now is what (money) damages do we get? We believe it will be a significant number.”
    Moreover, the failure was wrt due diligence, specifically relying on misleading information from the girl (phone number to the boyfriend who posed as the father and later as the brother) and possibly also the lack of a meeting 24h beforehand.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    When are you going to stop having daily sex with hamsters?
    HOW DID YOU KNOW?

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4130041AAWKlY3

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Several states have 0 parental notification about minors getting an abortion. And lol if you think planned parenthood is going to volunteer anything to anyone.
    So what!?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Statutory Rape is by definition child abuse.

    Consensual 15-15 relationships aren't stat rape AFAIK.

    Any source on the notion that Liberals want to overturn duty to report [to the Police not parents] laws though?
    So what? This. By allowing minors to get abortions without parental notification you enable statutory rape. Why is this in the thread? Because GGT brought up a statutory rape up and asked if I was similarly disgusted and I pointed out that it was liberals who enabled and defended rapists like Roman Polanski. I believe we've come full circle now.

  11. #71
    By allowing homeschooling you enable child abuse
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    So what? This. By allowing minors to get abortions without parental notification you enable statutory rape. Why is this in the thread? Because GGT brought up a statutory rape up and asked if I was similarly disgusted and I pointed out that it was liberals who enabled and defended rapists like Roman Polanski. I believe we've come full circle now.
    No that's just not true. Parental consent has fuck all to do with statutory rape. Reporting to Police is to do with that.

    So long as the issue is reported to the Police how does denying a child an abortion if parents don't consent have ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with stat rape?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  13. #73
    In some places if you report to the police or CPS without notifying the parents first you may be at risk of being sued (successfully). I don't remember exactly how or why, sounded scary though
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    No that's just not true. Parental consent has fuck all to do with statutory rape. Reporting to Police is to do with that.

    So long as the issue is reported to the Police how does denying a child an abortion if parents don't consent have ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with stat rape?
    Except it's not reported to the police unless the child explicitly states that the father is overage.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    I'm sure you'll say the site is biased but you can research each on one on your own. And that's just the one's reported. Keep in mind that Planned Parenthood AND the minor both have an incentive to be quiet so its likely that they get away with it thousands of times.
    Yeah, it's a biased web site. They include health/safety violations -- like the kind every Hospital is occasionally cited for after JCAH or State Health Board inspections. That's vastly different from rape/sexual abuse reporting laws.

    The one in CT titled "Failure to Report Sexual Abuse" was a missing 15 year old, who'd been held captive by an adult man and two adult women, locked in a small room for a year, and impregnated. Planned Parenthood released the fetal tissue for DNA comparison, proving the kidnapper was her rapist, and court evidence to convict the creep! While it would have been great if the intake interview had identified her as a victim of kidnap/rape/imprisonment....the girl might have been concerned about being able to terminate her rapist's pregnancy if she'd confided the situation, gotten dragged into the legal system, and delayed the abortion.

    Would you have preferred the State make the decision, by requiring her parents be notified and give consent before her abortion? Really?


    As far as birth control - I'm on the fence in some ways. Birth Control isn't as invasive like abortion however it can lead to death and really parents should know when their kids are taking body altering drugs. I'm sure you would be OK for parental notification of hydrocodone but I have a feeling you are really against notification of birth control. But now we are talking about consent and notification - I'm talking specifically about notification.
    Can't wait to see the web site you'd use as "proof" that birth control leads to death, or that it means "body altering drugs". Seriously, there are plenty of non-hormonal alternatives to The Pill, including barrier methods like IUDs or diaphragms. But those have to be inserted/fitted/subscribed by a physician...not as simple as OTC one-size-fits-most male condoms..

    Since you're so concerned with parental notification -- Do you think teenaged males should need a permission slip from their parents to buy Trojans at the local gas station?



    On a broader scale - how much control should parent's have over children's lives? Children are the legal and ethical responsibility of their parents. If a child defaces property the parent has to pay for it. If the child wishes to go out to a party the parent has the right to restrict that child's freedom to go. At what age can a child stop having to obey their parents?

    Example - At the age of 5 if a child wishes to go outside to play a parent can say no and enforce their decree. At 14 can a parent physically restrain a child from going outside and getting a ride to a party? Depending on how you answer will depend on you view the issue of parents taking an active role in preventing their children from having sex and being abused via statutory rape.
    Talk about tangents. I realize you're a parent of a toddler....but your "broader scale" sounds like worries of a new father that tends toward control-freak. Hate to burst your paternalistic bubble, but there's no way to prevent a teenager from being sexual, experimenting with or engaging in sex (that doesn't always mean intercourse, ya know.) Well, unless you raise them as hermits, secluded and isolated from the larger world, devoid of any trust. And if you think it's okay to use physical force to restrain your 14 year old from leaving the house....that's not just abusive, but bad parenting.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    "In the other twelve states, where an abortionist can perform this invasive procedure on a minor without either of that girl’s parents knowing, it doesn’t matter if the girl is a local resident or from out of state. It also doesn’t matter if your daughter is accompanied across state lines by the coercive adult father of her child -- your grandchild can be aborted without you even being aware of it.

    Moreover, this could have been stopped by now.

    In 2005 and 2006, both houses of Congress passed versions of the Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act (CIANA). This measure would have made it illegal to transport a minor to another state for the purpose of avoiding a state’s parental notification or consent for abortion law. It would have protected parents’ rights and protected girls from adult abusers who don’t want evidence of their abuse to survive.

    Without a doubt a big group of liberals do not want parental consent or notification laws for children getting abortions.
    There's something wrong with this particular "pro-life" crowd. They demand parental rights, while denying their own daughters the same.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    So what? This. By allowing minors to get abortions without parental notification you enable statutory rape. Why is this in the thread? Because GGT brought up a statutory rape up and asked if I was similarly disgusted and I pointed out that it was liberals who enabled and defended rapists like Roman Polanski. I believe we've come full circle now.
    No, I gave another example of disgust in rape sentences that didn't fit the crime. I didn't even post in this mess of a thread until you mentioned my name, and said lol when will GGT blame it on globalization. You're the one who started the circle-jerk.

    http://www.theworldforgotten.com/sho...l=1#post143489

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Except it's not reported to the police unless the child explicitly states that the father is overage.
    And if the child carries another child to term then does it get reported to the Police if they don't say that? If not I fail once more to see how abortion is relevant.

    Furthermore there is a very simple solution which is to require the reporting of all underage pregnancies (abortion or not) and let the Police find out if any crime has been committed. I believe under the same logic medical staff are also supposed to report GSWs and I don't see the difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    No, I gave another example of disgust in rape sentences that didn't fit the crime. I didn't even post in this mess of a thread until you mentioned my name, and said lol when will GGT blame it on globalization. You're the one who started the circle-jerk.

    http://www.theworldforgotten.com/sho...l=1#post143489
    You still brought up the statutory rape case and my point still stands that liberals are far more lenient and make excuses for rapists like Polanski.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Furthermore there is a very simple solution which is to require the reporting of all underage pregnancies (abortion or not) and let the Police find out if any crime has been committed. I believe under the same logic medical staff are also supposed to report GSWs and I don't see the difference.
    Not simple, and not a solution. GSWs are life-threatening, and victims can't avoid medical care. Bullet wounds come with the automatic presumption that a crime has been committed -- it's never a 'natural state' like pregnancies can be. That's why healthcare providers have a duty to report to Police. Surely you see the difference.

    Besides, to identify an underage pregnancy, all pregnancies would have to be treated as potentially criminal. And if physicians are seen as an extension of the Police, that would drive millions of pregnant women away from pre-natal care. Bad idea.

  21. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    You still brought up the statutory rape case and my point still stands that liberals are far more lenient and make excuses for rapists like Polanski.
    Check your reading glasses.

    You claim a lot of "points" without actually defending them with facts. That's why you throw around terms like "liberal", "lenient", or "excuses", and run away.

    You asked me how much control should parent's have over children's lives? and I answered. How much "control" do you think you should have over your son's future sex life? Do you acknowledge that positive parental care can turn into negative paternal paranoia? Would you know if/when you've crossed that line?



    Not surprising that you logged-off after reading that post. Run away, hide, deny. Must be some way you can blame lib'ruls for your behavior, huh.
    Last edited by GGT; 09-11-2013 at 06:02 AM.

  22. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Yeah, it's a biased web site. They include health/safety violations -- like the kind every Hospital is occasionally cited for after JCAH or State Health Board inspections. That's vastly different from rape/sexual abuse reporting laws.

    The one in CT titled "Failure to Report Sexual Abuse" was a missing 15 year old, who'd been held captive by an adult man and two adult women, locked in a small room for a year, and impregnated. Planned Parenthood released the fetal tissue for DNA comparison, proving the kidnapper was her rapist, and court evidence to convict the creep! While it would have been great if the intake interview had identified her as a victim of kidnap/rape/imprisonment....the girl might have been concerned about being able to terminate her rapist's pregnancy if she'd confided the situation, gotten dragged into the legal system, and delayed the abortion.

    Would you have preferred the State make the decision, by requiring her parents be notified and give consent before her abortion? Really?


    Can't wait to see the web site you'd use as "proof" that birth control leads to death, or that it means "body altering drugs". Seriously, there are plenty of non-hormonal alternatives to The Pill, including barrier methods like IUDs or diaphragms. But those have to be inserted/fitted/subscribed by a physician...not as simple as OTC one-size-fits-most male condoms..

    Since you're so concerned with parental notification -- Do you think teenaged males should need a permission slip from their parents to buy Trojans at the local gas station?





    Talk about tangents. I realize you're a parent of a toddler....but your "broader scale" sounds like worries of a new father that tends toward control-freak. Hate to burst your paternalistic bubble, but there's no way to prevent a teenager from being sexual, experimenting with or engaging in sex (that doesn't always mean intercourse, ya know.) Well, unless you raise them as hermits, secluded and isolated from the larger world, devoid of any trust. And if you think it's okay to use physical force to restrain your 14 year old from leaving the house....that's not just abusive, but bad parenting.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1370853


    So if a 14 year old wants to go to a party - and you have said no and they go anyway what will you do? If they disobey you and you do not stop them and they later die at that party YOU are negligent. Now granted in most cases good parenting will lead to the child actually obeying the parent but in extreme situations where do you think the law sides? Where do you think SHOULD it side? And at what age do YOU think parents should still have physical control of the child. I'm sure you agree that a 4 year old shouldn't be allowed to leave the home just because he wants to - at what age are you suggesting this changes?

    And while yes it is a tangent but the reality is that as long as you are a minor you don't have the right to an iPhone. You don't have the right to the internet. You don't have the right to not go to school. And you don't have the right to have sex if your parents say no. Does it happen? Sure of course I'm not stupid but children do not have absolute liberty to do as they will.

    EDIT: Condoms don't cause blood clots or other serious issues. Though I don't really care about laws that restrict the freedoms of minors because they aren't autonomous yet - so if there was a law that passed that said you had to be 18 to buy a condom I wouldn't consider it a breach of essential freedoms because children DON'T HAVE essential freedoms.

  23. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Not simple, and not a solution. GSWs are life-threatening, and victims can't avoid medical care. Bullet wounds come with the automatic presumption that a crime has been committed -- it's never a 'natural state' like pregnancies can be. That's why healthcare providers have a duty to report to Police. Surely you see the difference.
    If a 14 year old is pregnant then there should be an automatic presumption that a crime has been commited. Its never a 'natural state' like self-inflicted accidental gunshot wounds can be.
    Besides, to identify an underage pregnancy, all pregnancies would have to be treated as potentially criminal.
    Is it statutory rape for all sex or only sex with underage children? All sex with children can be treated as potentiially criminal.
    And if physicians are seen as an extension of the Police, that would drive millions of pregnant women away from pre-natal care. Bad idea.
    Good point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Its never a 'natural state' like self-inflicted accidental gunshot wounds can be.
    If a 14 year old is pregnant, thats about as natural as it gets. If it wasn't, she wouldn't be able to get pregnant.

    14 is high school age, a cesspool of raging hormones.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  25. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    If a 14 year old is pregnant, thats about as natural as it gets. If it wasn't, she wouldn't be able to get pregnant.

    14 is high school age, a cesspool of raging hormones.
    I guess its natural to hit each other with clubs and rocks to settle our disputes? After all its natural.

  26. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    I guess its natural to hit each other with clubs and rocks to settle our disputes? After all its natural.
    there could be an (weak) argument made against tool assistance, but thats why we have terms like fistcuffs. natural perhaps, but socially acceptable? not usually; and the terms are not interchangeable.

    Curious why Rand wants to criminalize natural behavior between high schoolers. Not suggesting that the end position is wrong (students generally have fewer rights for a reason), only the claim of it not being a "natural state"
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 09-12-2013 at 01:28 AM.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  27. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    If a 14 year old is pregnant, thats about as natural as it gets. If it wasn't, she wouldn't be able to get pregnant.

    14 is high school age, a cesspool of raging hormones.
    It's only natural if underage sex has taken place. Underage sex has a presumption of being a crime - just like GSWs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  28. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    It's only natural if underage sex has taken place. Underage sex has a presumption of being a crime - just like GSWs.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statuto...nd_Juliet_laws

    http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/08/sr/statelaws/summary.shtml

    Not necessarily true, however the issue of avoiding antenatal care is perhaps a greater concern.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  29. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    It's only natural if underage sex has taken place.
    you're still confused on what natural means.

    here, a quick wiki to see how your definition of "natural" has changed over the years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_...cial_attitudes
    PROTIP: pay attention to the lack of the term "natural"
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 09-12-2013 at 01:33 PM.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  30. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    If a 14 year old is pregnant then there should be an automatic presumption that a crime has been commited. Its never a 'natural state' like self-inflicted accidental gunshot wounds can be.
    It's not an automatic crime when peer groups mutually consent to intercourse -- like 14 yr olds often do. (I figured it was clear I meant a 'naturally' occurring biological condition.......like intercourse causing pregnancy.)

    Is it statutory rape for all sex or only sex with underage children? All sex with children can be treated as potentiially criminal.
    That's my point. You're being loose with the terms 'sex', 'underage', and 'children'. First, lots of sexually-related behavior can happen between curious kids, and be perfectly normal. It's not criminal for two little kids to show each other their heinie during a sleep-over (even though there are probably some parents who'd see that as perverted and file a police report.)

    Second, people lie about their age all the time, and teens may have fake photo ID. To identify any pregnancy caused by criminal sex, every patient would have to be treated as a liar or law-breaker, using fake ID, telling false stories. Including the 18 yr old girl who 'looks' 14, with the 18 yr old boyfriend who 'looks' 25.

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