The Parenting Thread
Since this keeps popping up in other threads, and leads to all sorts of tangents and drift....I figured it's time to have a thread dedicated to Parenting issues. We have all been 'parented' to some degree or fashion, so this isn't limited to people with children.
I'll use this Lewk quote to start things off:
What age do you stop your children from leaving via force?
You never really answered that question, so why would we?
I will give you that his question was too vague.
Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita
Technically speaking, you can have the police do it for you until the children are at least 16.
Hope is the denial of reality
Really? You can have the police come to your home and block the door because your kid wants to go to a party?Originally Posted by Loki
Technically speaking, you can have the police do it for you until the children are at least 16.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
no, but they can pick them up after you report them
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Why the surprise? Pretty sure this is the case in most (if not all) Western countries...It's what being a minor is; you're under the legal control of another actor, and that actor has the right to use the police to get you to comply with that reality.
Hope is the denial of reality
Can you have the police come over to make your kids to eat broccoli?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Lewk's 'question' (from his Disgusted thread) was a mess. He went from rape sentencing -- to parental notification for abortion and birth control for minors -- to using physical force to control children -- to parental accountability and liability. Instead of asking Lewk if he'd support laws to prosecute the parents of 'underaged' rapists (which would be more in-line with the direction his Disgust was going)....I decided it'd be better to debate the parenting aspect.
Timbuk is right, of course. Lewk has a compartmentalized, B & W view of the world, that apparently oozes into his parenting philosophies as well. However, he's not the only parent with these ideas about authority, control, or punishment. Indeed, there are millions who practice that Rule-the-Roost, Spare-the-rod/Spoil-the-child, My Way or the Highway, Mini-Me style of parenting.On a broader scale - how much control should parent's have over children's lives? Children are the legal and ethical responsibility of their parents. If a child defaces property the parent has to pay for it. If the child wishes to go out to a party the parent has the right to restrict that child's freedom to go. At what age can a child stop having to obey their parents?
Example - At the age of 5 if a child wishes to go outside to play a parent can say no and enforce their decree. At 14 can a parent physically restrain a child from going outside and getting a ride to a party? Depending on how you answer will depend on you view the issue of parents taking an active role in preventing their children from having sex and being abused via statutory rape.
Also, Parenting has multiple angles. Instead of asking
What age do you stop your children from leaving via force?
I think it's more important, and instructive to ask
At what age do you give children the option to leave, without using force?
There's no one age for that, it's a progressive concept. But it's crucial for kids to gradually gain more control over their lives, not less. That's how children learn to make decisions, face the consequences of their actions, and internalize right from wrong.
I'd rather have kids that strive to do the "right" thing, and learn responsibility at a young age....than just being afraid of their parents, or getting caught by authority figures.
I'm pretty sure no one is against this. But what happens if they rebel? What happens if they have already learned bad habits? Its like saying "Its better to handle things by diplomacy then having to go to war." That's nice and all but what if it doesn't work out that way? Then at what age should parents still have full control up to the point of preventing a child from leaving into a potentially dangerous situation.
Yeah, what if?
News Flash: children rebel. It's normal, natural, expected. Questioning and testing limits is a good thing. That means they're actively learning, engaging their brains, instead of adopting simple imitation (that any primate can do).
Parenthood doesn't come with any guarantees, ya know. It's a long and complex process. Tightening the apron strings (or noose) doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, but can actually distort and delay maturity, and self-reliance.
You're big on self-reliance, right? At what age will you trust your parenting, and your own child's decision skills.....to give up "full parental control"? Do you think it's a good idea to wait until after they've got a driver's license?
Lewk, after reading your recent "news" links in the Disgusted thread....it's clear you're a very worried parent.
Your own child is barely out of diapers, but you're already paranoid about teenaged parties, alcohol, drugs, and sex? Yes, paranoid. Your son is statistically more likely to suffer injuries from Sports activities (riding a bike or skateboard, swimming or diving, playing football, rugby, soccer, being a gymnast or wrestler or boxer) or driving a car.
Has being employed by the Insurance Industry messed with your head somehow?
I'm pretty sure I'm not paranoid about my 5 year old going to parties.
Maybe you should address your own question instead of punting.
First, define what a 'potentially dangerous' situation means. What is considered 'dangerous' depends on the child's age (and development).Then at what age should parents still have full control up to the point of preventing a child from leaving into a potentially dangerous situation.
If full control means something other than punishment for violating House Rules (which should loosen with age), then explain that too.
Tell them I have a massive, hidden meth fortune that they can't inherit until they are 45 years old and independently successful?
But this is actually an interesting question I just hadn't given much thought to until now.
Really? Didn't the "How you gonna make me" from your own childhood experiences come to mind?
Still, i don't think that's a high percentage phone call to the police department, unless you like being accused of wasting police time.Why the surprise? Pretty sure this is the case in most (if not all) Western countries...It's what being a minor is; you're under the legal control of another actor, and that actor has the right to use the police to get you to comply with that reality.
Never came up, I was pretty obedient on a day to day basis. And my parents were generally very relaxed. And the few times I did something bad, my parents never found out.Really? Didn't the "How you gonna make me" from your own childhood experiences come to mind?
But in general I guess I assume a relaxed parenting style, then again I could be totally unprepared for wildly rebellious kids.
Heh, I'd like to see a cop try to make a 10 year old kid go to bed on time.
My sister was very rebellious -- skipping school, sneaking out her 2nd floor bedroom window, running with an older crowd (with cars). They never got the police involved, but I remember my dad driving the neighborhood looking for her, and my mom calling all her friends' parents. She seemed to always be grounded, with all sorts of privileges removed, but it didn't do much good. They'd meet with the Dean of Girls (in those days that was the Attendance Office), her teachers, the principal, yadayada. Her doctor wanted to put her on amphetamines (early treatment for hyperactivity) but our folks didn't want to go that route, so they took her to a psychologist instead. He basically said she was a feisty, independent, creative personality type, and "traditional" parenting styles wouldn't work for her -- she'd just rebel to assert her individuality. So they loosened up a bit, and gave her some more autonomy, responsibility, and trust.
After posting that I got to wondering....how my folks would have parented in today's world. My dad might use technology to be hyper-vigilant -- car cams, GPS monitoring, computer software to track/block web sites. He'd probably have the whole house wired for security, so he could "check" on things from his devices, when he was away from home. It'd be my mom who would have to set limits, and tell him when he'd gone overboard as an over-protective father, creating a prison environment -- with no privacy.
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