WTF is the GOP playing at? (Read: US Budget)

[GGT]

No, I'm saying your arguments aren't doing anything for me. I've said several times in this thread that I acknowledge and appreciate the role the FDA is playing. I just don't think it should be mandatory and I don't think it's the only organization that can do what it is doing.

Exactly. You're part of a very small minority, with ideological views that aren't shared by 'most' people. Even the small/efficient government advocates recognize that federal/national mandatory standards, aka laws, are crucial to every developed society and first world nation.

I think you are tilting at the wrong straw men here. I'm not arguing that organizations shouldn't be accountable for the wares they sell. If you have an agreement with someone to purchase onions that are expected to meet to an acceptable standard, and they don't hold up their end of the bargain, then they become liable for any damages that product might cause. I don't think there is much of an incentive to purchase onions that didn't come with that assurance.

So, you'd have different standards, regulations, and laws for international imports...that are more stringent than domestic policies? Please explain that.

Seriously. I'm very sorry you don't like the choices people make. I'm sure you could make much better choices for them.

Yeah, that's the tactic US-centric Libertarians and Republicans use when they can't explain how Freedom and Choice doesn't translate so well in our modern, global, economic world. They frame it as fascism or SSSocialism. Us or Them.

[Enoch the Red]

Exactly. You're part of a very small minority, with ideological views that aren't shared by 'most' people. Even the small/efficient government advocates recognize that federal/national mandatory standards, aka laws, are crucial to every developed society and first world nation.

Are you familiar with the bandwagon fallacy?

So, you'd have different standards, regulations, and laws for international imports...that are more stringent than domestic policies? Please explain that.

That's a non sequitur. How do you get that from what I've said?

Yeah, that's the tactic US-centric Libertarians and Republicans use when they can't explain how Freedom and Choice doesn't translate so well in our modern, global, economic world. They frame it as fascism or SSSocialism. Us or Them.

Pointing out how blatantly patriarchal your views are is doing that how again?

[Enoch the Red]

Exactly. You're part of a very small minority, with ideological views that aren't shared by 'most' people. Even the small/efficient government advocates recognize that federal/national mandatory standards, aka laws, are crucial to every developed society and first world nation.

Are you familiar with the bandwagon fallacy?

So, you'd have different standards, regulations, and laws for international imports...that are more stringent than domestic policies? Please explain that.

That's a non sequitur. How do you get that from what I've said?

Yeah, that's the tactic US-centric Libertarians and Republicans use when they can't explain how Freedom and Choice doesn't translate so well in our modern, global, economic world. They frame it as fascism or SSSocialism. Us or Them.

Pointing out how blatantly patriarchal and condescending your views are is doing that how again?

[GGT]

Okay, how am I the one with "patriarchal" views, comparing international policy with domestic Freeedom and Liberty.....while being accused of non-sequitors?

I like to think hope and pragmatism could win the day, and sway anyone from the fringe/extremes toward the center/middle. Yeah, that means you, Enoch. Do you want our Democratic/Republic/Union to actually work and function for We, the People, or not?

[GGT]

Since you asked twice, I'll answer twice.

I've said several times in this thread that I acknowledge and appreciate the role the FDA is playing. I just don't think it should be mandatory and I don't think it's the only organization that can do what it is doing.

I'm not arguing that organizations shouldn't be accountable for the wares they sell. If you have an agreement with someone to purchase onions that are expected to meet to an acceptable standard, and they don't hold up their end of the bargain, then they become liable for any damages that product might cause. I don't think there is much of an incentive to purchase onions that didn't come with that assurance.

That's why I asked you about international imports. If you believe FDA standards should be voluntary, that "other groups" could do the same thing, that contract agreements with unknown/vague "acceptable standards" are all that's needed, and avoiding liability law suits is the best incentive.....then international policy might be more stringent than domestic policy, since our food chain is global.

Now you're deep into the weeds of commerce and trade, regulations and inspections for fruits/vegetables/plants and live animals -- that Hawaii takes quite seriously, with quarantines. Border states with Mexico and Canada, and Florida and California go to great lengths to protect their local crops from 'foreign' insect pests and seed strains. Tomatoes are practically an industry to itself. I don't think any of those states would appreciate the "voluntary, other group" standards you propose. Do you?

And then there's China. Their imports are routinely found to be contaminated with all sorts of crap, from melamine to lead, because they don't have the same regulatory/inspection standards as the FDA, USDA, CDC. Did I miss some massive campaign from US manufacturers, distributors, or vendors to boycott Chinese imports? Have any of the liability law suits 'incentivized' better standards?

Pointing out how blatantly patriarchal and condescending your views are is doing that how again?

I think many Libertarians, and some Republicans, find practically every governmental regulation or standard to be patriarchal and condescending. Even when they make good public policy sense, and have no plausible or pragmatic alternative. Privatization isn't some panacea, but often a Pandora's Box.



Here's a news update about the FDA and pet food:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/25/health...iref=allsearch