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Thread: More Erdogan madness

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Couldn't be bothered to start a new thread. Turkish place blaming attack on ISIS.
    Seems like IS sop.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  2. #272
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    So in the past few days I've seen an astonishing number of otherwise non-crazy people advance the bizarre argument that we should excuse Erdogan's shenanigans because he's done so much for the Turkish economy. Of course that's ridiculous but it got me wondering about what kind of impact Erdogan has had on the Turkish economy. Has he worked wonders, as some seem to believe? If not, who/what was responsible for the improvement really? Has he contributed to worsening the economy in less visible ways? Any and all input welcome.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  3. #273
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Not only is it a very bizarre logic (the ends justify the means), it isn't even true. Turkish GDP growth growth has not been particularly special under Erdogan's rule. Not terrible, but not great amongst developing nations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #274
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    The answer is yes he and his party have done great things to improve the economy. However a lot of it is based on attracting foreign money and that means that the political instability he is causing by his autocratic tendencies does severe damage. If the rule of law is what the ruler decides it is, that gives people pause to think if their investment is safe in Turkey. Once the foreign money dries up the Turkish economy goes over the cliff. By the way half of the malls opened over the last decade are half empty and underperforming. There are serious indications that part of the reason why Davutoğlu had to go was that Davutoğlu had said that the Turkish state couldn't afford the big projects Erdoğan likes so much any longer.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  5. #275
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    I too am seeing mixed answers. On the one hand, greater fiscal discipline, esp. early on. On the other hand, rampant clientelism, unsustainable projects of dubious value, questionable policy wrt interest rates and a worrying over-reliance on foreign investment and debt (worrying because of the possible impact, on investors' perceptions and behavior, of political instability as well as of shenanigans).
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  6. #276
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Btw, does the Turkish constitution really explicitly allow or even require the armed forces to intervene eg. when Turkey's secular nature is threatened or in any such situation?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Btw, does the Turkish constitution really explicitly allow or even require the armed forces to intervene eg. when Turkey's secular nature is threatened or in any such situation?
    As far as I know yes. You should not forget the present constitution was written by the generals who disposed of the civil government in september 1980. The way I understand it, article 4 of the Constitution, which declares even proposals for changes to the first 3 articles illegal was put there to curtail the powers of civil society.
    Last edited by Hazir; 07-20-2016 at 11:30 AM.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  8. #278
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    As far as I know yes. You should not forget the present constitution was written by the generals who disposed of the civil government in september 1980
    I ask because I keep seeing the claim but I've been unable to find the specific text that grants the armed forces this power.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  9. #279
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Wikileaks has a huge cache of 300,000 Turkish government emails
    Your thoughts are broken. Your reasoning is flawed.
    The defense is just an act, and lies are all you've got.
    How easily can we see defeat behind your argument?
    That fatalistic smile.

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Wikileaks has a huge cache of 300,000 Turkish government emails
    About as interesting as when they would have dumped 300,000 random e-mails.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    I ask because I keep seeing the claim but I've been unable to find the specific text that grants the armed forces this power.
    See my edit.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  12. #282
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    The only reference I can find is to an amendment, in 2013, of some article of the legal code (unclear if it's in the constitution) that removed the legal justification used for previous coups.

    The new article is supposed to read:

    “the duty of the Armed Forces is to protect the Turkish homeland against threats and dangers to come from abroad, to ensure the preservation and strengthening of military power in a manner that will provide deterrence, to fulfill the duties abroad with the decision of the Parliament and help maintain international peace”
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  13. #283
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Okay, Turkish Armed Forces Internal Service Law, Art. 35.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  14. #284
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    Appearantly up till 2001 the Constitution itself contained stronger wording enabling the armed forces to act, but that was curtailed by charging the Supreme Court with the powers to rule on constitutionality of laws and changes to the Constitution. Article 35 has been around for a lot longer.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  15. #285
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    It took the Turkish security council 5 hours of talks to declare 3 months of a state of emergency. Which makes me wonder why it took them so long.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  16. #286
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Okay folks, will Turkey's agreement with the EU re. refugees hold or will it fall apart due to the demand for visa abolition?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  17. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Okay folks, will Turkey's agreement with the EU re. refugees hold or will it fall apart due to the demand for visa abolition?
    It will fall apart, not sure for which reason.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  18. #288
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    http://www.vox.com/world/2017/3/8/14...a-refugees-aid

    Can't shake the feeling that this is the beginning of something horrific.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  19. #289
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Will nothing stop Gulen's attacks against the Turkish people?
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  20. #290
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    That was the first thing I thought of; but it appears that they are angry with the USA for working with Syrian kurds associated with the PKK in Turkey.

    And the standard Sevres Treaty paranoia.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  21. #291
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Now the Dutch are Nazi's apparently: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39242707

    Hazir do you mind if I ask if you have any regrets about getting a home in Turkey now. Things have taken a change much for the worse since you invested there it seems, you have my sympathies
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #292
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Erdogan and his bunch are certainly making themselves a lot of friends at the moment. That will most likely silently backfire at them.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  23. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Now the Dutch are Nazi's apparently: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39242707

    Hazir do you mind if I ask if you have any regrets about getting a home in Turkey now. Things have taken a change much for the worse since you invested there it seems, you have my sympathies
    Regrets no, worries yes. After the Gezi protest I put plans to rebuild on ice and limited having political discussions to people I trust. Half of this nation does not support the present regime.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  24. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Erdogan and his bunch are certainly making themselves a lot of friends at the moment. That will most likely silently backfire at them.
    The hysteria is for internal consumption, but Turks will pay the price in the decline of the middle class.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  25. #295
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    The hysteria is for internal consumption, but Turks will pay the price in the decline of the middle class.
    Indeed. Foreign investors usually don't like such hysterics by a government and tourists also don't like being called Nazis. They won't make huge waves about it, they'll simply go somewhere else.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  26. #296
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39416954

    The fact of spying is less surprising than the scale.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  27. #297
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/18/po...ent/index.html

    Since nobody posted this yet. What I find interesting is that Erdogan apparently feels untouchable enough to do something like that in the USA without repercussions.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  28. #298
    Uncolonizable Wraith's Avatar
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    https://www.facebook.com/amerikanins...8768770105442/

    Sorry for facebook, but it's the best quality video of the incident I've seen.

  29. #299
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    But he is untouchable, that is the whole thing. They need him just enough to let him get away with it.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  30. #300
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    And now we learned he doesn't like the word arena. Which led to the change of name of a bunch of sport stadiums.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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