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Thread: More Erdogan madness

  1. #1
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    Default More Erdogan madness

    The Padisah is hitting out in every which way because one (or more of his plans) backfired. Over the last few days a coup d'etat in the old fashion seems more possible than ever before.

    The short version of this is that Erdogan is burning his bridges with the Islamist organisation Hizmet which is led by Fetullah Gulen. According to some ex-Hizmet members I know, Gulen's people were the moderating factor in the AKP from the beginning. But his form of Islam is not the same as the harder Islamist form Erdogan envisions. Erdogan sees himself as the rightful ruler (as opposed as merely the Prime Minister) of Turkey who should not be held accountable to anybody else than himself and maybe the voter every four years. So he appearantly decided to rid himself of Gulen and his people.

    Gulen and his people are biting back though; over the last few days the judiciary and police have moved against people as close to Erdogan as it get's; the sons of some of his ministers and a bunch of big shot business men. Now, that in itself is enough of a story; the AKP tearing at the seams. BUT, the story is rapidly turning into something much much bigger than just graft in Turkey. One of the businessmen arrested turns out to be a man heavily involved with state controled Halk bank in a gold for Iranian oil program. A program that of course was not to the liking of the US government. Which is very understandeable, but what crazy Erdogan now does is put the blame for all his troubles with the US ambassador in Ankara

    The chaos grows every day, the turkish lira is rapidly losing value.

    New York Times
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    I saw that earlier. I'm hoping this is the beginning of the end for Erdogan. Ideally, the Gulen people will form their own Islamist party, virtually ensuring that the AK Parti won't win the next election. Erdogan's reaction to this situation is really no different to his reaction to anything that he doesn't like, by the way. The only difference is that he's going against his own people this time. But once someone disagrees with Erdogan, they become an enemy for life. I see no prospect for reconciliation here, which is good for Turkey over the long-term, but probably not the short-term (who knows how messy this situation will become in the next year?).
    Hope is the denial of reality

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    Yeah, it will probably rid the country of Erdogan, but how messy and costly the process of removing him will be is the big question mark.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    Gulen seems to be pissed off. I wonder how far he's willing to take this. If his main original goal was to weaken the military, he's already accomplished that objective. Why sink with a dying ship.
    Hope is the denial of reality

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25491341

    I swear that Erdogan believes that he is Turkey, and if he did something that benefited him and killed every last Turk, he'd still think it was in Turkey's interest.
    Hope is the denial of reality

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Gulen seems to be pissed off. I wonder how far he's willing to take this. If his main original goal was to weaken the military, he's already accomplished that objective. Why sink with a dying ship.
    What makes you think that Gulens organisation could not simply be one of the children this particular Revolution is going to devour? It is very difficult for the Padisah to stay in power without the full support of Gulen, but it's not necessarily so that he can't stay in power. The thinking part of the nation may be getting very uneasy about his style of government, but a large part of the electorate isn't a part of that constituency.

    In the category petty retaliation: the newspapers Zaman and Todayszaman (both Gulenite) will no longer be distributed on board of (state owned) THY airplanes.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    Just before he was off to his buddies in Pakistan the Padisah pushed through a new directive that effectively makes it impossible for anybody in power to be investigated without being notified of the fact that he's under investigation. Long live the Sultan !
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Wow, he just fired the prosecutor! Interesting that the street protests aren't starting up again, but I guess you never know what gets people on their feet. That would probably strengthen his hand in some respects, don't you think? Give him a distraction?

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    Probably because he's going after other Islamists. The protesters were almost entirely secular lefties/Alevis.
    Hope is the denial of reality

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Wow, he just fired the prosecutor! Interesting that the street protests aren't starting up again, but I guess you never know what gets people on their feet. That would probably strengthen his hand in some respects, don't you think? Give him a distraction?
    Actually there have been protests, but not as widespread as during this summer. I think a lot of people are just in shock over what is happening at the moment. The mere denial of the military of any chance that it will interfere is a stark reminder of old time. The turkish lira just crashed through the 3.00 lira ceiling. A week ago we were looking at 2.85 to the euro, and that already was an all time record.

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    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    Ah, the parallel realities of Turkey. Ten thousand people are bussed to the airport to cheer on the Padisah, at the same time police starts shooting teargas at people gathering for a demonstration ın Taksim even before they had time to get started.

    I am staying at home tonight; the air outside is a bit too thick for my likingç
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    At first I thought that it HAD to be a mistake in translation, but today the NYT confirmed that Erdogan actually got wrong one of the most basic things about the interest rate and inflation; the man is convinced raising of the interest rate by the central bank will lead to higher inflation.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/wo...st/turkey.html

    Whoa.

    Maybe he only understands the world in terms of giving orders, and not incentives. The guy thinks bureaucrats can just command prices to go "up" and "down" and everyone in the private sector says, "oh, okay".

    But seriously, Turkey is looking a bit more like a classic case of a country that attracts a LOT of capital inflows but doesn't have the civil society able to handle it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/wo...st/turkey.html

    Whoa.

    Maybe he only understands the world in terms of giving orders, and not incentives. The guy thinks bureaucrats can just command prices to go "up" and "down" and everyone in the private sector says, "oh, okay".

    But seriously, Turkey is looking a bit more like a classic case of a country that attracts a LOT of capital inflows but doesn't have the civil society able to handle it.
    The strange thing about it is that his party is the party that demolished the statist structures where it could.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    Erdogan doesn't like to hear anything that isn't unadulterated praise of his every act. He has ordered his minyons to make a law that effectively gives him the right to close down any website that publishes anything he doesn't like. The EU has already said this law is a violation of EU standards. The only hope is that the president will find his balls and vetoes this.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    Hope is the denial of reality

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    Aren't both Facebook and YouTube both extremely slow/hard to access in Turkey anyway?

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    At the moment both are accessible and not slower than usual.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    The scary part of it all is that no matter what is made public about what Erdogan does, about 35% of Turks are going to vote for him. The rationale being that 'yes he steals like the worst of them, but at least he gets things done'.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    Random semi-related question: Do you think the past few years in Turkey's economy have been productive or just an asset/currency bubble?

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    Not just a bubble, but to a large extent yes. All you need to understand that is look at the high speed at which the Istanbul skyline is changing and realise that a lot of it is done with money chasing for returns. I think a lot of Arabs investors in Istanbul real estate are going to have big blisters on their fingers.

    And locals are going to learn what it means to have bought a house at a price nobody can afford to buy at with banks no longer being able to offer financing at rates under inflation.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26594922

    Just what kind of an idiot is he? I should also note that Erdogan doesn't apply the same logic to Palestinian stone-throwers...
    Hope is the denial of reality

  23. #23
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    No no no no no no.. you don't understand the world. There are two kind of people in this world. People who are still RTE's buddies and terrorists. And nobody but RTE decides in what category you fall and when.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    At least he watches Western movies.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  26. #26
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    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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    I hope Google isn't next.
    Hope is the denial of reality

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    I think he hates facebook and youtube that much more.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  29. #29
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    Countdown to blocking, if it's not blocked already...

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...53701510620372

    Google Refuses Turkey's Requests to Yank YouTube Videos
    Move is Latest Sign of Resistance to a Crackdown Against Social Media led by the Prime Minister

    By SAM SCHECHNER and EMRE PEKER
    March 21, 2014 5:10 p.m. ET
    Google Inc. has declined Turkish government requests to remove YouTube videos alleging government corruption, people familiar with the matter said, the latest sign of resistance to a crackdown against social media led by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

    Turkish authorities have in recent weeks asked Google to block the videos from YouTube's Turkish website, the people familiar with the matter said. But amid a national scandal over corruption allegations, Google refused to comply because it believes the requests to be legally invalid, the people added.

    Google's refusal to remove videos raises the specter that Turkey could move to block access to YouTube within the country, after blocking the microblogging service Twitter Inc. late Thursday night. Both sites have been central conduits for allegations of corruption against Mr. Erdogan's government and faced public threats of a blackout by Mr. Erdogan.

    Some people within Google had feared a YouTube blackout could be imminent, after the Twitter takedown, the people familiar with the matter said. "We feel an immediate threat," one of the people said.

    As of late Friday, YouTube was still online in Turkey.

    The videos in question include some with an alleged recording of a conversation in which Mr. Erdogan appears to tell his son to hide money from investigators, one of the people said. Mr. Erdogan has said the recordings, which have been viewed millions of times on YouTube, have been doctored and are part of a foreign plot to topple his government.

    Google often fights against what its executives say are unreasonable requests to remove content from the Web. "We support a free and open Internet throughout the world and are concerned whenever and wherever it comes under threat," a Google spokesman said in an emailed statement.

    The Twitter blockage led to a wave of condemnation inside and outside Turkey that could complicate further blackouts.

    Opposition politicians decried the move as that of a dictatorship. Turkish President Abdullah Gul, who has a largely symbolic role, also came down against the blackout, using Twitter to write that "wholesale shuttering of social media platforms cannot be approved."

    It isn't the first time YouTube has run into conflict in Turkey. The site was banned sporadically in the country between 2007 and 2010 because it had declined to remove videos that were said to be insulting to Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, the founder of the modern republic.

    Write to Sam Schechner at sam.schechner@wsj.com and Emre Peker at emre.peker@wsj.com

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    Yeah, guess Youtube will be gone any moment now. Not that it will affect me very much, I can always connect through other means, but it wouldn' t surprise me if the ultimate goal is creating a sort of Turknet. It would fit the national paranoia perfectly. Because we shouldn' t forget one thing; Erdogan may be a madman but he can do what he does because generations of Turks were raised on the idea that the rest of the world is hostile to the very existence of their country. Hardly anybody gets his news from sources other than the established Turkish media. Compared to those I could call Fox News fair and balanced.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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