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Thread: French Anti-Tech Lunacy

  1. #1

    Default French Anti-Tech Lunacy

    Given the news of the past few weeks, I think this merits its own thread. The French have inherited some Germanic irrationality, however their anti-tech lunacy stems from more traditional Gaulist inhibitions on competition, xenophobia and luddism.

    These are the voyages of the French state. Her contt

    Capitalism: the final frontier. These are the voyages of l'Etat Francais. Its ongoing mission: to destroy strange new industries, to regulate new lives and new markets, to boldly over-burden in ways no state has over-burdened before.

    France says ‘Non’ to the digital age
    By Peter Gumbel JANUARY 10, 2014

    France has kicked off 2014 with an array of skirmishes against Amazon, Google and other U.S. Internet companies, in what is shaping up as a classic battle between comfortable Gallic tradition and disruptive modernity.

    On Thursday, Jan. 9, the French Senate unanimously approved a bill that would ban Amazon from offering free shipping on books in France. Strongly endorsed by the Ministry of Culture, the legislation is supposed to safeguard the existence of the country’s 3,500 bookstores, about 800 of which are independent. [ED ]

    A few hours earlier, France’s national agency for data protection, known by its acronym CNIL, announced that its sanctions committee had found Google to be in breach of national privacy laws, based on the company’s March 2012 decision to merge different privacy policies for each of its services — including YouTube, Gmail, Google Maps and Google Docs — into one policy. CNIL, along with data protection agencies in five other EU nations, argued that Google doesn’t sufficiently inform its users about how or why their data is processed. It ordered the Internet giant to pay a fine of 150,000 euros (about $200,000) and to publish a communiqué on its French home page informing users of the sanction.

    And in late December, a handful of companies offering private minicab services online in France, including the San Francisco-based startup Uber, began organizing against a new government decree that forces minicabs to wait 15 minutes before picking up a customer, unlike regular taxis that have no such restriction. [ED ]

    While the circumstances differ in the three cases, they together reveal a France that can be slow, reluctant and sometimes downright ornery about accepting the sort of changes that the digital age brings. French officialdom pays lip service to the importance of innovation — there’s even a government minister charged with fostering it — but the government can be vigorous when it comes to defending the French way of doing things. Netflix, which is available in other parts of Europe, hasn’t yet been able to launch its services in France, and last year a government minister prevented Yahoo from buying the French video site Dailymotion. Culture is an especially sensitive topic. France provides big subsidies to TV shows, movies and even newspapers, and insists that its “cultural exception” is exempted from any new European free trade deal with the U.S., in order to be able to continue paying subsidies and imposing quotas on the proportion of U.S. shows on French television.

    Industry groups have a far stronger voice than consumers, and the regular licensed taxis, and even the bookstores, are no exception. Last January, the nation’s 55,000 taxis staged a series of road blockages protesting the arrival of new cab services like Uber, and the 15-minute wait period is one result of their action. The national bookstore association decried Amazon for using “dumping” prices — and persuaded the government to give booksellers an additional $25 million in subsidies.

    A third characteristic is that consumers’ interests are at times sacrificed for a perceived common good. European Union legislation bans most monopolies these days, but oligopolistic practices are common. Under a law dating back to 1981, for example, bookstores are not allowed to offer discounts of more than 5 percent on the retail price of books set by the publisher. That’s great for authors, publishers and bookstores, but an anomaly at a time when books are quickly discounted in price elsewhere. And despite the ability of consumers to buy around the clock online, the government hasn’t yielded to public pressure to allow stores to stay open on Sundays or late in the evenings.

    Competition — a source of innovation and low prices, but a threat to the status quo — is frowned upon. France’s national antitrust authority came out strongly against the 15-minute rule for online cabs, saying it would introduce “unjustified distortions to competition.” The two government ministries that issued the decree, the Ministry of the Interior and the Ministry of Trade, ignored its advice.

    The big question is whether any of these attempts to crack down on the Internet firms and their methods will have an impact. This is not just a French issue: Amazon and Google are also being targeted by regulators in other European nations, including the UK, Germany, Spain and Italy. The European Union has been investigating alleged anti-competitive actions by Google for the past three years, and several countries have expressed dismay at the relatively small amounts of tax that Google and Amazon pay to their national treasuries, largely as a result of smart financial engineering and use of transfer payment loopholes in European corporate accounting.

    In Google’s case, the 150,000 euro fine levied is an all-time record for the French data protection agency, but a mere slap on the wrist for the Internet giant, whose worldwide daily revenues are about 1,000 times as large. And the alleged lack of privacy protection hasn’t stopped the onward march of Google’s services in France. Former President Jacques Chirac in 2006 tried to create a Franco-German search engine called Quaero to compete with the U.S. giant, spending $130 million of government money on the effort, which has gone nowhere; Google today has more than 90 percent of the French search engine traffic.

    The new law aimed at Amazon also seems unlikely to stop or slow the growing trend of online book buying in France and the demise of bookstores. About 17 percent of books in France are now sold online, compared with about just 3 percent in 2005, according to the Ministry of Culture. Four out of every five of those online sales goes through Amazon. The profit margins of bookstores, long wafer-thin, have all but vanished. In 2011-12, according to official figures, bookstore profit margins were just 0.3 percent of their revenue on average. (For Amazon, profitability is an afterthought. Its stock continues to soar as it loses money.)

    The proposed ban on free shipping must still receive final approval from the lower house of parliament before it goes on the books, but that seems probable given the broad bipartisan support it has received. Once it is enacted, Amazon and its online competitors will have to choose between offering less expensive shipping or less expensive books. The total discount won’t be able to exceed 5 percent — ensuring that books bought online will be more expensive than those bought in stores.

    As for the taxis and their 15-minute grace period, the government decree has been widely chided, and not just by the online cab firms. Jacques Attali, an influential former government adviser and writer who proposed a full liberalization of the taxi system in France several years ago, described it as “absurd.” Uber, together with other online cab services, plans to lodge a formal complaint against the decree in French administrative courts. But their advantage over regular cabs won’t come through court decisions; it will come because their services are easier, more convenient, often cheaper, and simply more modern than conventional cabs. And however much France likes to intervene to keep the status quo, it’s a losing battle.

    It’s also detrimental to France as a whole. The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, among others, frequently reproaches France for over-regulating its product markets, arguing that the restrictions on competition “not only reduce productivity growth but also hinder the development of employment.”

    The French answer to that is usually a Gallic shrug. France moves at its own pace, even in a frenetic digital world.

    http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debat...e-digital-age/

  2. #2
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    I'm not seeing the "anti-tech" angle. Protectionism, sure, but "anti-tech"?

    And protectionism is nothing new with France.
    When the stars threw down their spears
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    I'm not seeing the "anti-tech" angle. Protectionism, sure, but "anti-tech"?

    And protectionism is nothing new with France.
    Yeah, but that would make a less nice title!

    We have a similar rule about discounts on books here (only Dutch books,I think), which should be eliminated.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  4. #4
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Maybe he thinks that they're protesting against online retailers?

    Newsflash, Dread:
    a) this is specifically targeted at Amazon and, more importantly,
    b) the French had an online system since 1982, called Minitel. Granted, it wasn't very colourful or had nice pictures, but you could definitely buy stuff online.

    I guess he'll try to weasel out of that one somehow because it doesn't fit the narrative.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  5. #5
    A lot of US cities also have retarded rules protecting (certain) cab companies as well. Dread should know that as well as anyone considering New York, especially considering the legal shitstorm new york caused over the Nissan NV200.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Maybe he thinks that they're protesting against online retailers?

    Newsflash, Dread:
    a) this is specifically targeted at Amazon
    Oh, great. That's a relief.

  7. #7
    Dread likes to call "Lunacy" on any policy he disagrees with. How crazy is that.

  8. #8
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Oh, great. That's a relief.
    That is your counterargument?

    You seem to have recognized the retardedness of your arguments regarding "anti-tech".
    When the stars threw down their spears
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    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Nobody's denying the French can be a bit lunatic, after all.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    That is your counterargument?

    You seem to have recognized the retardedness of your arguments regarding "anti-tech".
    Hmm, well I suppose one could broadly describe French economic policies as anti-competitive and xenophobic. I guess we'll have to see if the next story comes from Germany or France, the land of the "right to be forgotten".

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Hmm, well I suppose one could broadly describe French economic policies as anti-competitive and xenophobic. I guess we'll have to see if the next story comes from Germany or France, the land of the "right to be forgotten".
    Seems to me that you are the xenophobic one since you believe balance to be anti-competative.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    Seems to me that you are the xenophobic one since you believe balance to be anti-competative.


    Do you seriously believe any of these measures promote "balance"? What exactly do you mean by that.

  13. #13
    Screwing the consumer is all the rage in left-wing circles, don't you know? Everything must be done for the benefit of the state.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  14. #14
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Hmm, well I suppose one could broadly describe French economic policies as anti-competitive and xenophobic. I guess we'll have to see if the next story comes from Germany or France, the land of the "right to be forgotten".
    Hipocrisy, thy name is Dreadnaught.
    When the stars threw down their spears
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Hmm, well I suppose one could broadly describe France as anti-competitive and xenophobic. I guess we'll have to see if the next story comes from Germany or France, the land of the "right to be forgotten".
    Fixed

    If by next story, you mean European anti-tech lunacy, sure, if you are talking about anti-tech lunacy in general, you seem to be missing the US Surely they'll find another way to ruin internet privacy, make internet companies comply with secret courts, come up with legislation that would make google, youtube, wikipedia etc. illegal, or something similar. Oh btw, the taxicab discussion isn't exactly purely European either: http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/25/44...ter/in/3731645
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  16. #16
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Hey, it's not anti-tech if it's happening in the USA.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Hipocrisy, thy name is Dreadnaught.
    Lunacy, thy name is France.

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57...k-on-uber-car/

    http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/13/53...-turns-violent
    "THE POLICE WERE THERE, BUT THEY WERE JUST WATCHING."

    http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/artic...6735_3234.html



    Taxi protest in Paris turns to guerrilla warfare as Uber car attacked on freeway

    Update 12:06PM – A second incident of an Uber car being attacked by up to 20 men has been reported by Bertier Luyt, confirmed by Uber.

    Update 12:16PM – no less than a dozen confirmed incidents in Paris & Lyon, including “flat tires, eggs, broken windows,” confirms Uber.

    The right to protest has always been powerfully upheld in France – whether it’s protesting an immigrant’s right to healthcare, the closing of a factory, or even Taxis, who have perfected the art of making their voice heard; however, how much is too much?

    It seems that protest turned to guerrilla warfare this morning as one Uber driver, carrying Eventbrite CTO Renaud Visage & Kat Borlongan from the airport to Paris, was attacked by multiple assailants, who allegedly, after smashing one window and slashing two tires (as seen in the photo), as well as defacing one side of the car with glue, attempted to enter the vehicle. Borlongan says their Uber driver manoeuvered the two out of the situation before anything could happen, leaving the three stranded on the shoulder of the freeway.

    “Now on the shoulder of the freeway waiting for help, freezing and with my hand bleeding from the splintered glass. Thanks for the big welcome home, Paris. ” – Kat Borlongan
    There’s no confirmation that this attack came from the protesting taxi drivers; however, that certainly seems to line up with the sentiment felt by taxi drivers these days – unwarranted hate.

    Update: Uber’s GM of France Pierre-Dimitry Gore-Coty has commented on the incident:

    “Uber strongly condemns this morning’s incident where two of our users and our driver were confronted with severe violence.
    First, we are very glad all involved are safe and ok. Also, we would like to praise our partner who has shown great courage and professionalism, who focused on getting his customers out of a very challenging situation.
    That the taxis chose to use violence is unacceptable, that they chose to strike is their business. However, Parisians also have a choice when it comes to moving around in their cities, and today’s incident will certainly not tempt Parisians into choosing a taxi for their next ride. Safety, reliability and choice, not violence, are what continues to draw customers towards VTCs.”
    http://www.rudebaguette.com/2014/01/...This%20Morning
    Still waiting for Being to describe "balance"...

  18. #18
    Typical. French workers just kidnapped two executives the other week, didn't let them leave their office, shouted at them non-stop. Nothing was done to the kidnappers.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  19. #19
    Its called bossnapping and appears to mainly be a cultural/mental thing limited to France. They consider it a negotiation tactic

    guess its a step up from the history of union and anti-union violence and paid hits the US has in its past.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  20. #20
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Then again, we also had bankers holding whole countries as their hostage, so I don't quite see the problem
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  21. #21
    Are we done dog piling yet? Cause if we want to go anti-tech, how about our appeals court attempting to kill net neutrality? And the best part is this quote:

    “Without broadband provider market power, consumers, of course, have options,” the court writes. “They can go to another broadband provider if they want to reach particular edge providers or if their connections to particular edge providers have been degraded.”

    If there is one thing to be understood about American broadband, its that most of us have zero choice in our broadband provider, short of relocating.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

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