That's been the argument against an anti-Russian foreign policy back to the days of Stalin.
That's been the argument against an anti-Russian foreign policy back to the days of Stalin.
Hope is the denial of reality
Besides once again the Russians are doing more to destroy their own economy than we ever could. There are sanctions that could be enacted that wouldn't destroy their economy, like an arms boycott.
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
They're marginally weakening it, but nothing that will lead to political change.
Hope is the denial of reality
I really wonder what Russia will have to do that will cause us to enact real sanctions. I want Russian institutions to be barred from Western markets, from clearing dollar (or euro) denominated transactions in our banks, and for most of their elite to be made persona non grata in Western countries. Ukraine is hardly the only thing; they've happily fueled the Syrian civil war, Iranian nuclear development, proliferation of advanced weapons systems to all sorts of shady characters, and openly meddled in the affairs of their neighbors. Their obfuscatory propaganda nonwithstanding, they are clearly at fault for far more than a downed passenger jet, and should be punished accordingly.
I have doubts that sanctions will significantly change Russia's position - Putin has developed a weird alternate world in the Russian polis that likely will see Western action against them as validation of their worldview, and further harden their political stance. But regardless of the short term efficacy, we really can't continue to give them minor slaps on the wrist for wildly unacceptable behavior.
I'm guessing invading the Baltics.
Hope is the denial of reality
Just sanctions? Even for NATO members?
845. Another way to weaken the Euro (7/21/2014)
The energy supplyof Europe is heavily dependent on Russia. About one third to 40% of its naturalgas and oil are imported from Russia. One important gas pipe is inside Ukraine.If there is a turmoil in Ukraine, the gas supply to Europe will be affected.The economy of Europe would be weakened, so be the Euro. That’s why we saw anupheaval in Ukraine.
Here EU used tobe a follower of the US. I think the Europeans have sensed the coming dangerthe US will bring to them. German is a major power of EU. Recently, German hastwice revealed two US spy cases and eventually expelled a CIA intelligenceofficial. That’s unusual.Ron PaulDefends Russia After Malaysian Plane Crash
.
By ColinCampbell Jul 21, 2014,
One of thoseunreported things, Paul claimed in his weekly "Texas Straight Talk"column, was the United States' own responsibility for destabilizing the region.Ukraine is currently embroiled in violent conflict between the Ukrainiangovernment and the pro-Russian separatists.
"They willnot report that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when EU andUS-supported protesters plotted the overthrow of the elected Ukrainianpresident, Viktor Yanukovych.
WithoutUS-sponsored 'regime change,' it is unlikely that hundreds would have beenkilled in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash havehappened," Paul wrote.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ron-pa...151731466.html
I would sayGerman has sensed (or with its state ability, having the intelligence) that USwould sacrifice European’s economy by creating a crisis in Europe. It could beterror attack; or war. The deportation of US intelligence official is just awarning or protest of disagreement. Several days later, Malaysia airliner MH17was down in Ukraine.GermanyDemands Top U.S. Intelligence Officer Be Expelled
Posted 10 July2014 - 07:36 PM
BERLIN — Germany’s relations with the UnitedStates plunged to a low point Thursday, with the government demanding theexpulsion of the chief American intelligence official stationed here because,it said, Washington has refused to cooperate with German inquiries into UnitedStates intelligence activities.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/11/wo...icer.html?_r=1
And I think that was a rather smart policy.
Congratulations America
Yes. I really don't think we'll be sending in troops.
By invasion, I mean a Ukraine-type scenario. Should have been more clear there.
It's been consistently wrong. Or do you think the alternatives to Stalin were worse than him?
Hope is the denial of reality
I don't even know why you talk as if Russia under Stalin can be compared to Russia today.
Anyway, I don't know if any of you saw any pictures of how the first 40 bodies were recieved here in Holland, but I was touched. I almost teared up when I read someone describe it as 'they are coming to claim back their names'.
Congratulations America
Did they find all the bodies?
Hope is the denial of reality
That's impossible to know at this point, considering we don't even know how many bodies were flown back today. They did find more bodies today, don't know if their search is over.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Actually, I think it's more likely that NATO allies would intervene if there wasn't going to be a direct confrontation with the Russian military - far fewer chances of an irreversible escalation. I guess there's also less certainty that such a scenario would be due to external destabilization rather than a legitimate internal struggle, but Russia's tampering so far has been far from subtle.
Quite frankly I don't see what it'll take to get any real concrete form of action against Russia. Far easier to make tough-sounding soundbites, make a meaningless gesture and/or blame someone else than to make a real difficult decision that could have repercussions. Putin knows that too, he knows he can and will continue indefinitely to get away with it.
I don't see it, and I don't think Russia does either. You can be certain that Russia will start testing this scenario (in lesser form) if the Ukrainian situation works out for them.
Hope is the denial of reality
Hope is the denial of reality
The PM of Ukraine just stepped down...
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/0...wn-109330.html
News just in: Putin new PM of Ukraine.
Hope is the denial of reality
I like how some of the examples of how Russian people are out of touch are actually examples of how the US public is out of touch. "Russians have extremely different opinions about the conflict in Syria, viewing the war in that unlucky country not as a brave struggle for freedom but as a chaotic war of all against all." The comment about Libya post-Qadaffi is also not wrong, just a different plausible perspective/narrative.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Yeah, those examples are silly. I could give far better ones from watching official Russian news for 2 days...
Hope is the denial of reality
It's about time they got someone whose got what it takes to stand up to Putin.News just in: Putin new PM of Ukraine.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Saw a Facebook page of a Russian soldier (it was linked to elsewhere) who boasted about shooting at Ukrainian military planes (from Russia) and had the photos to prove it. Page down now.
Hope is the denial of reality
The U.S. says it has "new evidence" that Russian forces have been firing artillery across the border to attack Ukrainian military positions, and that Moscow is planning to ship powerful rocket artillery to the rebels it backs in the country's east.
"We have new evidence that the Russians intend to deliver heavier and more powerful multiple rocket launchers to the separatist forces in Ukraine, and have evidence that Russia is firing artillery from within Russia to attack Ukrainian military positions," State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf said during a daily briefing.
"I can't tell you what the information is based on," Harf said.
The remarks come as the European Union agreed to add 15 people and 18 companies or other organizations to a sanctions list aimed at Moscow, according to Reuters.
However, the agreement came only after EU ambassadors were unable to reach a deal on broader sanctions that would have targeted whole sectors of the Russian economy, according to the news agency.
I bet the info is based on the same Facebook page.
Hope is the denial of reality
“LifeNews: Psychics proved that the Malaysian airliner has been shot down by Ukrainian military."
https://www.facebook.com/varlamov/ph...615482/?type=1
Hope is the denial of reality
We ARE all about the SIGINT *affirms*I bet the info is based on the same Facebook page.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Slightly old article but relevant -
http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardm...but-not-obama/
So is Putin an "apologize for Ukraine" kind of guy?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Putin isn't a total fool. He obviously knows how to manipulate Capitalism, and "Kapitalistas" on the world stage. The Olympic Games recently, the World Cup a few years from now. So many corporate sponsors, so much money involved....no one dared bow out on principle. If Putin is assuming the same applies when it comes to European energy imports, is he any less wrong? Can he be proven wrong?
A new Cold War?
I've got to say.....the Netherlands has my utmost respect and admiration for the way they treated after-events. They gave a dignity to victims and their families that was sorely missing early on. Truly moving.
So what messy, painful sanctions are the Dutch prepared to push forward?
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