He doesn't use the same water for washing clothes and octopus, he doesn't even use the fucking same machine.
He doesn't use the same water for washing clothes and octopus, he doesn't even use the fucking same machine.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
I assume they spawn inside washing machines.Originally Posted by GGT
Because he's a restauranteur. But he could do that at home if he wanted to....because HE is the owner of the appliance and water consumer/user. You're not thinking outside the box when it comes to using water. If you're not drinking the water directly, there are plenty of uses for "grey" water, including washing machine water. That's why top-load non-locking machines can be more efficient than front-load machines. Think of it like industry "off-label" use and maybe you'll understand what I mean.
Another example: I don't water my lawn or perennial plants. But during drought periods, I use my sink and bathtub water for dual purpose: to give plants a drink. The soapy water actually acts as a natural pesticide against aphids. That's something my front-load machine didn't allow due to physics and door positioning. I'm glad to have a top-load machine again....and can get the most use out of that water as I want. But it wouldn't work with a machine that dumps all the water any time I change/reset cycles or open the lid. See?
lol
Unless you do these things extremely often, the numbers probably don't work out in your favour but rather in favour of front loaded or otherwise more efficient machines. If it's a little more efficient once every two months and much less efficient for the remaining 59 days then you're actually easting water and energy with it. If you do all those things extremely often then you're being wasteful and although that octopus trick sounds cool it's probably not the best way to squeeze efficiency out of a home laundry machine
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
It's all relative and contextual. That means appliances -- and industry energy ratings -- aren't necessarily the best arbitrators. That's all I've been trying to say. Sigh.
Even when it's "relative" and "contextual" it's actually quantifiable and the opposite of what you're claiming. Unless your context is wildly disturbingly different from all other remotely reasonable contexts, the new top-loaders are probably more efficient than the old ones even for you, and you're just unreasonably annoyed about the water draining out. The customer is not always right. What on earth made you think otherwise? Sometimes the customer is wrong, or even crazy. Don't dry your dog in the microwave or complain about how a design flaw prevents you from drying your dog in the microwave without it dying a horrible death.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Sure, many new top-load machines can be more "efficient" than old top-load machines. But only if they don't dump water every time the user changes cycles or opens the lid, which many new models do. Yes, I'm annoyed by new "high efficiency" models that dump water, and consumers forking out hundreds of dollars for machines that have 5 star energy ratings that are actually false.
No, you misunderstand. I'm saying they are more efficient even if they dump water. Just work out the numbers and you'll see I'm right.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Give it up, Minx. She's a moronic old bat who lacks any trace of common sense and is unable to even slightly question her idiotic notions.
It's the same kind of brain that gives birth to "truthers" and "the 9/11 planes never existed!"
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Come on, that's an incredibly over-the-top statement.
Have you actually seen her at least acknowledge that an alternate viewpoint might exist? Or this part: "consumers forking out hundreds of dollars for machines that have 5 star energy ratings that are actually false."
If that isn't conspiracy-type paranoia then I don't know what is. The criteria for attaining energy star ratings are openly available and publically known. One might argue about the criteria themselves, but that's not what she's doing.
She's arguing that we're being lied to. Even when anyone with a energy meter (which cost about 10€ over here) and a water meter (which for me hangs directly next to the washing machine) can examine the claims for oneself.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
It also acts as a natural herbicide against the plants themselves. That soapy water isn't good for the planets, GGT, it just kills them more slowly than not watering them at all.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Ok. Can we compare it to Akin and his ridiculous notions about it not being possible for a woman to get pregnant by rape?
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
I dunno, I think this is a different kind of difficulty.
Ya gotta wonder though... why DO modern top-loaders drain the water out when you pause mid-cycle??
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Probably because it won't resume the washing cycle anyway. After all, there's no real reason for opening the machine when it's almost done washing anyway (and all that's left is rinsing and cycling).
Yeah. Lyes like sodium hydroxide are commonly used herbicides.
And guess what soapy water amounts to? Lye.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Wow, what a thread, huh?
Fuzzy, many pesticides are nothing more than diluted soaps, particularly "organic", non-toxic or environmentally 'friendly' pesticides. Read the labels -- the contents can be found in most kitchen pantries or grey water (including used wash water). Diluted soapy water is NOT an herbicide. If it was, there'd be tons of dead grass, flowers, bushes, and trees any time people wash house windows, or cars in the driveway, or bathe dogs in the lawn. Key word -- diluted.
Khen, what the hell is up with that huge chip on your shoulder? Why are you acting more caustic than lye?
I hadn't realized this thread, or my original "Happy" comments about a fricking washing machine entailed such consternation and skepticism....until Fuzzy brought it up in a D & D thread.Like I said, I don't save my internet searches, but maybe I should waste some time to defend the 'credibility' of my personal opinions, and end the character assaults?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqYRaumxtAA
"another limitation is not being able to throw in that last minute item". Read the comments section, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOSF5zUr2tY
My personal experience with front-load machines is they twist and stretch fabrics, even on "delicate" cycles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozhiWgOtxho
they don't mention that tub water is dumped when cycle options are changed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1stdNzvWZ4M
One of the better demonstrations of new HE top-load machines. They don't mention that spending $1,000 (or more) on the appliance is only "cost efficient" if the machine runs properly without needing any service repairs in the first ten years of use (surprise, they don't).
Click on the margins, follow the links, decide for yourself. If you can afford to spend ~ $500 for a washing machine that meets your household, lifestyle, and budget needs (without using credit cards that add to overall costs).....and you're already a frugal water/electricity consumer....why wouldn't you buy an older appliance and feel HAPPY about that?
Washing water is not "diluted" and doesn't do the plants any good if you don't actually measure the pH level of the soil. A pH level above 8 is a bad idea for any kind of plant, most of them actually prefer acidic conditions. Soapy water is usually pH 9 and above.Fuzzy, many pesticides are nothing more than diluted soaps, particularly "organic", non-toxic or environmentally 'friendly' pesticides. Read the labels -- the contents can be found in most kitchen pantries or grey water (including used wash water). Diluted soapy water is NOT an herbicide. If it was, there'd be tons of dead grass, flowers, bushes, and trees any time people wash house windows, or cars in the driveway, or bathe dogs in the lawn. Key word -- diluted.
As for your examples: it just shows again that you have no idea at all what you're talking about.
Guys, this is what I talked about when I used "truthers" as an example. This is the exact same closed mindset which doesn't even begin to comprehend the notion that it might not know anything.
And, the comments section of YouTube as a metric? Seriously?
Last edited by Khendraja'aro; 04-22-2014 at 03:00 PM.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
http://www.adviceongardening.com/hom...cidal_soap.htm
The simplest soap recipe is to take two tablespoons of your household dishwashing liquid and add it to one gallon of water. Simply mix thoroughly and spray on your plants where you see an infestation. You can add several drops of vegetable oil to help the soap bond to the plant as well. If you would like to make a smaller batch of the soap, for use indoors or on a smaller area outside, simply add between 1 and 1 ½ teaspoons of dishwashing liquid to one quart of warm water. You can put the mixture in a spray bottle to make application easier.
http://www.ask.com/web?q=insecticida...o=100081&l=dir
Insecticidal soap is defined as any of the potassium fatty acid soaps used to control many plant pests. Insecticidal soap is typically sprayed on plants in the same manner as other insecticides. Insecticidal soap works only on direct contact with the pests. The fatty acids disrupt the structure and permeability of the insect cell membranes. The cell contents are able to leak from the damaged cells, and the insect quickly dies.
I read about an effective DIY pesticide years ago, using a teaspoon of Dawn (dishwashing detergent) in a gallon of water, with the 'juice' of an acid like lemon juice or apple cider vinegar.....or a couple of cigarette butts. The nicotine apparently repels pests without killing the plant. Sorry, I can't remember the source, but it was probably from a Fine Home Gardening hard copy.
Back to new top-load washing machines. Since there were people DEMANDING to know where I found user complaints, this is just one source:
http://www.washing-machine-wizard.co...-41-cu-ft.html
"The washer won't fill properly, you can't change a setting after you've started the machine because if you do the stupid thing drains all water (& soap) and you have to start over."
That was for a GE machine, but there were similar complaints about Whirlpools, Maytags, and Kenmores at other sites. At least that's what I recall from my "shopping" foray, and partly why I decided to go with a used appliance that had better consumer ratings than a new appliance.
A 5 year old appliance has well-documented user and maintenance records, compared to 5-Star energy ratings or HE profiles for "new" appliances that don't.
Last edited by GGT; 04-24-2014 at 11:39 PM.
I'm not a "truther", or flat earth luddite. Just because I have a healthy dose of skepticism toward some industry sectors trying to pose their products as "efficient" doesn't mean I'm anti-science, or against new technology.
I would have loved to spend my $500 cash budget on a brand new washing machine that used less water/electricity, and considered my bad back (ergonomics), and considered my personal laundry habits (using some tub water for multiple purposes) in the mix. But they didn't.
Why should I be expected to exceed my budget for an appliance that doesn't meet my needs or expectations? Seriously.
PS to Khen -- I can also make a pesticide using hot pepper juice (aka capsaicin), add some soapy water from my wash tub, and dilute the solution with water from a garden hose (that's not suitable for drinking). I've never "measured" the pH of my soil, but can tell if it's too acidic or alkaline based on growth and color of perennial plants and flowers (particularly hydrangeas), and know when drought/dryness is the problem.
Sometimes being an "old bat", gardening and washing clothes (and using water for multiple purposes) has merits not recognized by commercial manufacturers, energy raters, or "chemists" like you....
Last edited by GGT; 04-27-2014 at 06:22 AM.
Gah, I almost hate to post here again, for fear it will spawn another argument.....but my uber-environmentally-minded sister recently replaced her front-load washing machine with a top load machine. Not the HE type (without the internal paddle) but a 5 star energy-rated appliance that lets her use the water infill like a faucet, and can override computer settings that would otherwise waste water.
I found it interesting that we both arrived at the same conclusion, regarding washing machines, without having talked about it (or dissected it by ad nauseum) first.
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