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Thread: Does desertification contribute to global warming, and to what extent?

  1. #1

    Default Does desertification contribute to global warming, and to what extent?

    Saw an interesting TED-talk about a possible way to reverse desertification by using livestock:



    It made me wonder if desertification as well as practices such as burning grasslands contribute significantly to global warming, and if reversing desertification may be a very effective way to rein in the dangerous trends in climate change.

    What do you think? Overstated? What does the research say?
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  2. #2
    ??

    Had always thought formation, encroachment and/or expansion of deserts were a result of GW, not a cause.

  3. #3
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Could be a feedback system (aka: Vicious circle).
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    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Either way it looks like a win win. More greenery/food production, and more natural CO2 scrubbers
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  5. #5
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    But what about possible negative impacts on the ecology due to the lack of deserts?

    Seriously, that was one of the arguments here on this very board when solar energy production in deserts was advocated: That those solar panels could have a negative ecological impact on the desert.
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    Did he smile his work to see?
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  6. #6
    I thought global warming is what led to desertification. I suppose both can be true, but we're always had deserts, but haven't always had global warming.
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  7. #7
    Desertification is obviously affected by climate change, but historically most of it has occurred due to land misuse - overgrazing, depletion of water supplies, etc. Still human agency, of course, but different causes.

    And I'm sure it helps to contribute, though I doubt it's as strong of an effect as some would make it out to be. We have bigger fish to fry - I think we should make concerted efforts to reduce desertification, but only because it's wasteful and we should be husbanding arable land resources, not because it's a major contributor to climate change.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    But what about possible negative impacts on the ecology due to the lack of deserts?

    Seriously, that was one of the arguments here on this very board when solar energy production in deserts was advocated: That those solar panels could have a negative ecological impact on the desert.
    Who made that crackpot suggestion?

    Good land maintenance can definitely affect the land that is in desert form, see Egypt and Israel for examples of desert nations that have done so I believe. Still I suspect its more affect than cause and the advantages of green land are more immediate than global warming anyway.
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  9. #9
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Who made that crackpot suggestion?
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  10. #10
    Wasn't that a thread on how if we blanketed all the desert-areas of the US in solar panels that it would provide enough energy to power the whole country though? Because yeah, turning every square mile of arid region into a solar farm would have a significant and undesirable ecological impact.
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  11. #11
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Naw, in that thread I merely stated that it would probably be more efficient and cheaper to pave the Sahara with solar cells rather than develop orbital solar power. It was not meant as a suggestion to actually do that.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
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    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Who made that crackpot suggestion?
    To be fair, there are complex and delicate ecosystems at work in many desert areas, and significant infrastructure projects can and do disrupt those ecosystems. Israel had big issues with this when they were constructing portions of a major highway in recent years; the parts that go through the south had all sorts of environmental opposition because it would disrupt the local habitat of several endangered species. To get around the problem, they ended up installing a bunch of special tunnels and other workarounds to allow for the free migration of wildlife on both sides of the highway.

    The point is that desert areas aren't lifeless, and major infrastructure projects in the middle of them can have significant ecological and biodiversity implications. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it; perhaps the alternative is far worse (e.g. burning coal for power). But it isn't a completely crackpot idea to be concerned about it - we just need to do a cost benefit analysis.

    Good land maintenance can definitely affect the land that is in desert form, see Egypt and Israel for examples of desert nations that have done so I believe. Still I suspect its more affect than cause and the advantages of green land are more immediate than global warming anyway.
    Egypt less so; if you look at satellite maps of the Israel-Egypt border (for that matter, pretty much any desert border with Israel), you can see the border because the Israeli side is so much greener. A big part of it involves controlling grazing and other land use.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I thought global warming is what led to desertification. I suppose both can be true, but we're always had deserts, but haven't always had global warming.
    Globalization (and modernization) led to global warming. Deserts can be normal/natural ecosystems on planet earth. What's not "natural" is humans turning deserts into farm land, and/or urban hubs ....when that requires massive water and energy consumption, and re-distribution efforts using carbon-based fossil fuels, and their emissions.

    Land and water management is as (maybe more) important as any other energy resource, but doesn't have the same protections as coal, natural gas, or oil industries. That's a mistake, IMO.

  15. #15
    Yep, any change on any issue is bad unless it's an issue you want changed.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Yep, any change on any issue is bad unless it's an issue you want changed.
    If that's how you see things....your future as a Political Diplomat might be seriously compromised.

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