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Thread: What's messing with your Groove?

  1. #5341
    Sticking to the topic.

    I trade for fun etc. on the auctionhouses around here.
    Gold and silver rates are pretty much always the same.
    i.e. Buying and selling small amounts generates no fortunes but it’s nice to have some insight.

  2. #5342
    The baby tried to slither outta my grasp and I threw my back, am now walking around in horse stance feeling young.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  3. #5343
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Yeah we did; and I really don't know how we forgot about them. I was acutely aware of there being 2 turkish gold coins in a drawer. Having something like that around the house isn't a bad thing though, is it?. I used to read a lot about WW II, and never got rid of the feeling that life as we know it is awfully breakable. A sentence that stuck with me over the decades was from a second-generation camp survivor which translates at 'my parents always had a fully packed suitcase ready, just in case..'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    In Turkey inflation has been so fierce in the nineties (and it's picking up again these days) that who can afford it has gold at home. Money simply isn't trusted quite as much. Either in or out of the bank.
    Huh, interesting. I have grown up in a milieu surrounded by refugees of different eras: refugees from Europe in the 30s and 40s (and earlier!), refugees from much of the Arab world in the 40s and 50s, refugees from Iran in the early 80s, refugees from the USSR in the 70s and 80s, etc. My cultural background is intensely aware of the fragility of civil society and of my (currently secure) place in it. And certainly there are things like always having up to date passports (ideally from several countries), having ready access to relatively liquid assets, and keeping a nose to the wind of the prevailing political and cultural moment. But in reality pretty much everyone I know who survived one of these events didn't have much luck bringing tangible or intangible assets with them. The powers that be generally stripped them of their belongings and assets so that no amount of cash or gold or jewelry were all that useful. Most of the people I know who have fled persecution ended up in their new home with essentially the clothes on their backs.

    I guess I don't have anything of real value in my home; the only thing we insure is my wife's engagement ring, and everything else is peanuts. But if I did have thousands of dollars worth of negotiable goods in my home, they'd be securely stored in our safe and I'd know precisely about their location and status (just as I do with savings bonds, legal documents, etc.). I also have no particular attachment to precious metals or stones. I don't see them as inherent stores of value, but just commodities subject to the same fluctuations in demand as any other commodity. *Shrugs* Chalk it up to cultural differences perhaps?

    I do get the argument about inflation; my family living in countries with histories of currency volatility do tend to stockpile hard currency in cash form as a bit of a hedge.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  4. #5344
    The facebook desktop UI redesign is one of the most abominable redesigns any company or creature has ever shat out

    jfc
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  5. #5345
    Partner's inability to rationally argue... once again we've ended up in a spot, where I'm getting yelled at by my missus, because she is not allowed to go through with her wishes. Case and point is, she wants to fill our couch with pillows. Personally, not a big fan of pillows. In my opinion, they are more a hassle, and I end up removing them from my back, or collect them from the floor, as they fall down. So ideally, I want no pillows as I find the couch super comfy as is. She wants 10. Being the good man I am, I ask for a compromise with 3. Otherwise, I say, she has to buy all of them herself, as frankly, I don't need them and more importantly, would feel better without. She throws a massive tantrum, and like so often before, resorts to "punishment" by threatening to deny me other things. This time around, she only wants to cook dinner for herself instead of both of us, and she won't buy the carpet we both ( ) wanted. So pretty much more to spite me than anything else. I feel as if this is a slightly more dominant female trait, if its legal to suggest. I don't see many men who tries to force their partners to buy into things, and if not granted, get angry and punish them on unrelated stuff. They are usually more able to remain calm, and just agree to disagree, and separate the case from their overall mood. Or maybe it's just my missus who is incapable of this.

    The ironic part is that when I wanted to invest in a cooling tower, as it's gruesomely hot here in the summer, she frankly denied to share the bill, as it's "too expensive". I bought it anyway, as I value my night sleep much more than 140$ which was the listing price. And guess what, she is the one begging to use it the most these days once it has been aqcuired. Still does not want to pay her share for it though. The pillows she wants costs 120$ all together, so I try to make the same argument back to her, and this is when she is throwing a complete fit. Lord save me.
    Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?

  6. #5346
    I've been in my current relationship for over 15 years, so I feel justified in giving you this advice:

    Whenever you're about to start an argument with your significant other, consider the following: "Will I care about this in one year?" Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, care if you have zero or ten pillows on your couch? You yourself have said that you can always just remove them when you sit down. And do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, care about $60 for your half of said pillow purchase? Because if this is a (cheap!) thing you can do that will make your partner happy - with the cost of occasionally having to remove some pillows before you sit down - then you should 10000% do it.

    I, personally, think throw pillows are an incredible waste - half of them are hideous, none of them are comfortable, and they are about as silly as the useless decorative pillows that are included with bedding sets. But clearly your partner feels differently, and giving her what she wants every now and then (and no, not compromising on some number in between) is frankly a valuable part of relationship building. You should never make an ultimatum (make it 3 or I don't pay for my half). You should agree that all home purchases are split, and then actually - horror! - have to come to an agreement on what those purchases are. And sometimes, someone will be unhappy. Tough luck.

    I will also caution that it is rarely wise to question the rationality of a woman you are arguing with, or claim that men are somehow more rational. Not only are there substantial historical and cultural reasons not to use this line of argument specifically about women (look up 'gaslighting'), it also won't win you any points. Perhaps you can try instead to understand why she is feeling or behaving the way she is. Perhaps your ultimatum caused her to feel unappreciated for her role in maintaining your home, and her response about other tasks and purchases for the home is trying to highlight that things that she does in fact contribute. Perhaps she is offended because her selection of the throw pillows was an attempt to make your home together more comfortable and attractive, and your wholesale rejection of this approach offended her.

    It is almost always a good idea to take a step back, consider how important an issue is to you, and try to understand your interlocutor's perspective.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  7. #5347
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazuha Vinland View Post
    Partner's inability to rationally argue... once again we've ended up in a spot, where I'm getting yelled at by my missus, because she is not allowed to go through with her wishes. Case and point is, she wants to fill our couch with pillows. Personally, not a big fan of pillows. In my opinion, they are more a hassle, and I end up removing them from my back, or collect them from the floor, as they fall down. So ideally, I want no pillows as I find the couch super comfy as is. She wants 10. Being the good man I am, I ask for a compromise with 3. Otherwise, I say, she has to buy all of them herself, as frankly, I don't need them and more importantly, would feel better without. She throws a massive tantrum, and like so often before, resorts to "punishment" by threatening to deny me other things. This time around, she only wants to cook dinner for herself instead of both of us, and she won't buy the carpet we both ( ) wanted. So pretty much more to spite me than anything else. I feel as if this is a slightly more dominant female trait, if its legal to suggest. I don't see many men who tries to force their partners to buy into things, and if not granted, get angry and punish them on unrelated stuff. They are usually more able to remain calm, and just agree to disagree, and separate the case from their overall mood. Or maybe it's just my missus who is incapable of this.

    The ironic part is that when I wanted to invest in a cooling tower, as it's gruesomely hot here in the summer, she frankly denied to share the bill, as it's "too expensive". I bought it anyway, as I value my night sleep much more than 140$ which was the listing price. And guess what, she is the one begging to use it the most these days once it has been aqcuired. Still does not want to pay her share for it though. The pillows she wants costs 120$ all together, so I try to make the same argument back to her, and this is when she is throwing a complete fit. Lord save me.
    When you have a shared economy, a shared household and a shared life, a good process for compromising eg. on purchasing decisions is crucial, and it's important not to frame compromises in such a way that you sound like you think of your life as just two people who happen to live in the same apartment, or as if one person wins and one loses, or as if someone has committed a betrayal that needs to be punished. What you're describing sounds like a breakdown of your process for compromising on shared decisions—if you've had such a process to begin with. It also sounds like a proxy argument. In concrete terms, it would probably be good to establish a consensus on what things are purely individual decisions, and what are shared decisions. In this case, I'd say cushions for the sofa is a shared decision, so you have to arrive at a compromise without the ultimatum about her having to pay if she wants more pillows. The issue is not money or space on the couch or who will use what, but shared ownership of your life together. I wouldn't frame it in terms of rationality tbh, and if I had to make an observation about the role of gender, I'd say that guys are much more likely to approach this sort of thing with a muddled relationship framework, treating a romantic relationship as if they're just roommates, demonstrating signs of insufficient emotional investment etc. Just good to bear in mind that that there are at least two perspectives here, and it's not certain that you're more right than she is. This is a solvable conflict, but y'all need to have a heartfelt talk about how you're approaching this type of thing. The past couple of years have seen both of you deal with a number of difficult and frustrating decisions impacting your life together, so there might be some things to work through.

    I'd recommend proposing 4 pillows and an apology from each party to the other.
    Last edited by Aimless; 08-28-2020 at 04:49 PM.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  8. #5348
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    TLDR; pick your fights and remember that your partner's feelings are facts for you.
    Congratulations America

  9. #5349
    So we are arguing about pillows?

  10. #5350
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    Quote Originally Posted by rille View Post
    So we are arguing about pillows?
    Basically. Not worth fighting about, I'd say. No matter what the quantity.
    Congratulations America

  11. #5351
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    When you have a shared economy, a shared household and a shared life, a good process for compromising eg. on purchasing decisions is crucial, and it's important not to frame compromises in such a way that you sound like you think of your life as just two people who happen to live in the same apartment, or as if one person wins and one loses, or as if someone has committed a betrayal that needs to be punished. What you're describing sounds like a breakdown of your process for compromising on shared decisions—if you've had such a process to begin with. It also sounds like a proxy argument. In concrete terms, it would probably be good to establish a consensus on what things are purely individual decisions, and what are shared decisions. In this case, I'd say cushions for the sofa is a shared decision, so you have to arrive at a compromise without the ultimatum about her having to pay if she wants more pillows. The issue is not money or space on the couch or who will use what, but shared ownership of your life together. I wouldn't frame it in terms of rationality tbh, and if I had to make an observation about the role of gender, I'd say that guys are much more likely to approach this sort of thing with a muddled relationship framework, treating a romantic relationship as if they're just roommates, demonstrating signs of insufficient emotional investment etc. Just good to bear in mind that that there are at least two perspectives here, and it's not certain that you're more right than she is. This is a solvable conflict, but y'all need to have a heartfelt talk about how you're approaching this type of thing. The past couple of years have seen both of you deal with a number of difficult and frustrating decisions impacting your life together, so there might be some things to work through.

    I'd recommend proposing 4 pillows and an apology from each party to the other.
    It's pretty trivial, I get that. Last water droplet that makes the glass spill, kind of thing. Just starting to get really fed up over the one-way decision making. If she wants to buy something, its buy it or else you'll get cancelled all these other plans. Dinner together that day, vacation at your parents house next week, products you have both been saving up to over time, suddenly not wanted anymore. If I want to buy something, she reserves the right to decide no, and there are no consequences the other way around. If we both want to buy something in common like you said, it has to be her preferred choice of product we finally land on, or the same kind of punishment treatment is imminent. It's like that every time. We've tried to talk about it, but whenever I point out this hypocrisy, and ask for an actual counter argument - she instead goes into a crying fit and refuses to discuss the topic no more. That's the background for me claiming she is unable to carry a rational argument. If she was able to say "hey, this and that was actually your choice", I'd respect that, but sadly she can't. All the furniture or appliance in the apartment, both the acquirement and placing of such, has been her choice. It has come to a point, where I don't feel as if this is our apartment, but rather hers.

    I look around me in the living room and I see the couch, dining table, dining chairs, display cabinets, the TV stand, the blankets, the plants, the candles, the sofa table, all the decoration, all hers. I got to "pick" the TV model, as long as it was 55 inches, not an OLED, and had the dark silver frame she wanted. So I "picked" it, but again, the strict parametres she set, made the selection extremely narrowed. And to be frank, I also had to pay for it, as it was primarily "my" interest to watch TV, not hers. In reality, I am not allowed to watch my own shows in the living room, or play games, as the noise bothers her - while she is free to watch her own personal ones anytime.

    I guess I'm just ranting about my wish to not be controlled in such a manner. I end up in a place, where if I stand against her decisions, I do not respect her emotions according to her. Her perception of me being unfair to her, is purely emotionally based, while any outsider would be able to instantly tell that it's skewed so favorably towards her, that it's beyond a joke at this time.

    Sigh, I am really at a loss of what to do. We've been together for 6 and a half years, so I doubt either one of us is able to change that much. I hope you would be right, that it's just the way we approach these things. Yet I can't stay clear of the thought that I have absolutely no issue with compromises, as long as I feel it going both ways. With friends, I find making compromises to be such an ease, where every part is content after 40 seconds of communication. While with her, it just never seems to end up that way. Instead it ends up in prolonged fighting, and me resigning at last. Maybe we are just not meant for each other.
    Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?

  12. #5352
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazuha Vinland View Post
    It's pretty trivial, I get that. Last water droplet that makes the glass spill, kind of thing. Just starting to get really fed up over the one-way decision making. If she wants to buy something, its buy it or else you'll get cancelled all these other plans. Dinner together that day, vacation at your parents house next week, products you have both been saving up to over time, suddenly not wanted anymore. If I want to buy something, she reserves the right to decide no, and there are no consequences the other way around. If we both want to buy something in common like you said, it has to be her preferred choice of product we finally land on, or the same kind of punishment treatment is imminent. It's like that every time. We've tried to talk about it, but whenever I point out this hypocrisy, and ask for an actual counter argument - she instead goes into a crying fit and refuses to discuss the topic no more. That's the background for me claiming she is unable to carry a rational argument. If she was able to say "hey, this and that was actually your choice", I'd respect that, but sadly she can't. All the furniture or appliance in the apartment, both the acquirement and placing of such, has been her choice. It has come to a point, where I don't feel as if this is our apartment, but rather hers.

    I look around me in the living room and I see the couch, dining table, dining chairs, display cabinets, the TV stand, the blankets, the plants, the candles, the sofa table, all the decoration, all hers. I got to "pick" the TV model, as long as it was 55 inches, not an OLED, and had the dark silver frame she wanted. So I "picked" it, but again, the strict parametres she set, made the selection extremely narrowed. And to be frank, I also had to pay for it, as it was primarily "my" interest to watch TV, not hers. In reality, I am not allowed to watch my own shows in the living room, or play games, as the noise bothers her - while she is free to watch her own personal ones anytime.

    I guess I'm just ranting about my wish to not be controlled in such a manner. I end up in a place, where if I stand against her decisions, I do not respect her emotions according to her. Her perception of me being unfair to her, is purely emotionally based, while any outsider would be able to instantly tell that it's skewed so favorably towards her, that it's beyond a joke at this time.

    Sigh, I am really at a loss of what to do. We've been together for 6 and a half years, so I doubt either one of us is able to change that much. I hope you would be right, that it's just the way we approach these things. Yet I can't stay clear of the thought that I have absolutely no issue with compromises, as long as I feel it going both ways. With friends, I find making compromises to be such an ease, where every part is content after 40 seconds of communication. While with her, it just never seems to end up that way. Instead it ends up in prolonged fighting, and me resigning at last. Maybe we are just not meant for each other.
    Ouch, that does sound like a difficult situation to be in. I'm really sorry it's been that way. I agree that it's something that needs to be dealt with, if it's making you feel like there's no space for you in your shared life. There's an obvious problem with fairness and control based on what you describe. Pointing out hypocrisy and demanding arguments as justification does tend to make people dig in their heels, and talking about these things during or in conjunction to an argument/fight is difficult, but it can be difficult to know when to talk at all if you're afraid there'll be a difficult reaction no matter when you talk about it. With your job- & living situation being what it is, it can be even more difficult to approach this longstanding problem. You will need to talk about this, in a structured manner, at some point. The perfect time might never come, but you can try to agree on an okay time to talk about it, so that you're both prepared. This sort of thing results from personality traits and behaviors developed over the course of a lifetime, and relationship dynamics that become entrenched over a long time; doing something about it takes time, effort, commitment, awareness, a desire to change and a desire to respect one another. Agreeing on the problem and on some ground rules moving forward can help.

    I hope you do get a chance to sort this out. I can't offer any practical advice, but I will say that I've seen others in similar situations, some of whom have managed to work things out, and some who haven't. Even when personalities don't change, behaviors and the dynamic of a relationship can. My own relationship would've suffered from a similar imbalance—in my favor—had we not decided to make a conscious effort to make sure it didn't get to that point. As it is now, most of our decisions are shared, decisions made without consultation are never unacceptable, and we're both pretty good at handing over decisions we don't want to make. But it could easily have been very different, and I still have to make sure I'm not always getting things my way at her expense. My brother-in-law has been with his partner longer than I have been with mine, and their relationship seems—from the outside—to be extremely unbalanced in this respect, but they've somehow managed to agree on an approach that works for them, without one party being rolled over. So it's doable, and I hope things change for you guys. But, whether they do or not, I'm sorry you've had to feel like this for so long. You have had to deal with a lot of frustrating things over the past couple of years, and it's easy to feel like you have no control over your life, which is a shitty feeling. It's going to get better, and I hope it gets better soon. peace
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  13. #5353
    @Kazuha Vinland : are there kids involved or what is the long time plan?

    And sacrilegious. Yesterdy I was ordered at least 5 h overtime a week, going to try to ignore that.
    After my little cancer trip I can almost not do my normal hour and it's been two years now since last treatment.
    With the taxes here it doesn't feel worth it at all as well!

    Edit:
    My wife wants me to drop down in time to 75%.
    It would be sane to do this but I find it very difficult to accept.
    So this week we will have an argument about that, for sure, it started yesterday. :P
    I want to get back to were I used to be 3 years ago but that feels so far off.

  14. #5354
    Quote Originally Posted by rille View Post
    @Kazuha Vinland : are there kids involved or what is the long time plan?

    And sacrilegious. Yesterdy I was ordered at least 5 h overtime a week, going to try to ignore that.
    After my little cancer trip I can almost not do my normal hour and it's been two years now since last treatment.
    With the taxes here it doesn't feel worth it at all as well!

    Edit:
    My wife wants me to drop down in time to 75%.
    It would be sane to do this but I find it very difficult to accept.
    So this week we will have an argument about that, for sure, it started yesterday. :P
    I want to get back to were I used to be 3 years ago but that feels so far off.
    The missus went down to 75% upon going back to work and she's been extremely happy about it so far. Greater margins, more energy, more leisure time, easier to manage her flex time. I'll be doing something similar when I go back to work, but using my comp time (because that's more advantageous both financially and for vacation time as well as wrt requirements for my residency). Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts re. going down to 75%? Do you feel like it would be a defeat or setback? Are you worried about financial consequences? Is there any plausible alternate reality where you would choose to work 75% despite feeling perfectly all right? Again, just curious, no need to answer if you don't want to get into it.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  15. #5355
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazuha Vinland View Post
    It's pretty trivial, I get that. Last water droplet that makes the glass spill, kind of thing. Just starting to get really fed up over the one-way decision making. If she wants to buy something, its buy it or else you'll get cancelled all these other plans. Dinner together that day, vacation at your parents house next week, products you have both been saving up to over time, suddenly not wanted anymore. If I want to buy something, she reserves the right to decide no, and there are no consequences the other way around. If we both want to buy something in common like you said, it has to be her preferred choice of product we finally land on, or the same kind of punishment treatment is imminent. It's like that every time. We've tried to talk about it, but whenever I point out this hypocrisy, and ask for an actual counter argument - she instead goes into a crying fit and refuses to discuss the topic no more. That's the background for me claiming she is unable to carry a rational argument. If she was able to say "hey, this and that was actually your choice", I'd respect that, but sadly she can't. All the furniture or appliance in the apartment, both the acquirement and placing of such, has been her choice. It has come to a point, where I don't feel as if this is our apartment, but rather hers.

    I look around me in the living room and I see the couch, dining table, dining chairs, display cabinets, the TV stand, the blankets, the plants, the candles, the sofa table, all the decoration, all hers. I got to "pick" the TV model, as long as it was 55 inches, not an OLED, and had the dark silver frame she wanted. So I "picked" it, but again, the strict parametres she set, made the selection extremely narrowed. And to be frank, I also had to pay for it, as it was primarily "my" interest to watch TV, not hers. In reality, I am not allowed to watch my own shows in the living room, or play games, as the noise bothers her - while she is free to watch her own personal ones anytime.

    I guess I'm just ranting about my wish to not be controlled in such a manner. I end up in a place, where if I stand against her decisions, I do not respect her emotions according to her. Her perception of me being unfair to her, is purely emotionally based, while any outsider would be able to instantly tell that it's skewed so favorably towards her, that it's beyond a joke at this time.

    Sigh, I am really at a loss of what to do. We've been together for 6 and a half years, so I doubt either one of us is able to change that much. I hope you would be right, that it's just the way we approach these things. Yet I can't stay clear of the thought that I have absolutely no issue with compromises, as long as I feel it going both ways. With friends, I find making compromises to be such an ease, where every part is content after 40 seconds of communication. While with her, it just never seems to end up that way. Instead it ends up in prolonged fighting, and me resigning at last. Maybe we are just not meant for each other.
    I'd consider going to a couple's counselor to work on your communication. It's best if she agrees to come along (but do NOT pressure her into it - it has to be purely voluntary, if she feels that it's something forced upon her then it won't work!) but it's also something you can do on your own.

    A counselor can help you to deal with the situation by providing an outside perspective and giving advice on how to approach such difficult topics on a productive basis.

    What it'll boil down to, however, is to find the underlying reason for her need to control such decisions (or, if I may be frank, it might also be a question of why you find her decision making so overbearing and if it is indeed the case!) Has she always been this way, was it a gradual change or did it ramp up suddenly? If the latter, what changed? If the former why is it suddenly an issue for you?

    That's also the reason why I advise a counselor - it makes it easier to ask the right questions. And knowing the root cause makes tackling the actual issue much easier (not simple, though!)
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  16. #5356
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    I agree with Ken.
    Congratulations America

  17. #5357
    Same here. It's not really about throw pillows or purchasing decisions. A counselor can help you filter your emotions, and figure out the *real* problem.

  18. #5358
    I'm embarrassed to be an American, with a president Trump. I'm worried that he'll get re-elected, and continue to destroy the institutions that define our republic.

    His first term was depressing enough; for months I woke up fighting that bad dream feeling. A second term might be the alternate reality and existential crisis that finally pulls me under. (I used to hide under my school desk in the event of nuclear fallout, but this time is different.)

    I'm genuinely afraid of what a Trump second term could look like. Heavily armored police forces, thwarting peaceful political protests, prosecuting political enemies, threatening the press, manipulating voting, disinformation propaganda campaigns, treating immigrants as criminals, turning allies into enemies (things that have already happened but on steroids).

    The only consolation is that my skepticism borders on paranoia. yay? Is there a counselor for that?

  19. #5359
    there's been been some talk of a bear being sighted in the area where my wife (and 50 others, tbf) will be hunting this week.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  20. #5360
    My highly educated scientist sister (who generally follows recommendations for reducing risks among high-risk groups during the pandemic) wants to take her 90 yr old mother-in-law with several co-morbidities to the hair salon....because she (my sister) thinks it looks terrible at shoulder length. Seriously.

    Come to think of it, she's mostly whined about other people doing stupid stuff, but not recognized when her own behaviors are borderline stupid. Oh, she wears a mask everywhere and is fastidious about hand-washing, and all that. But she's been to the Poconos for a vacation, continues several "club" meetings, dines out at restaurants, and still shops at stores like nothing's changed. Even tho she's retired, she's still using an elderly woman to clean her house. She's even said that service-workers need people like her.

    It's hard to admit that family can be snobby hypocrites, and lose respect for them.
    Last edited by GGT; 09-11-2020 at 04:56 AM.

  21. #5361
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    My highly educated scientist sister (who generally follows recommendations for reducing risks among high-risk groups during the pandemic) wants to take her 90 yr old mother-in-law with several co-morbidities to the hair salon....because she (my sister) thinks it looks terrible at shoulder length. Seriously.

    Come to think of it, she's mostly whined about other people doing stupid stuff, but not recognized when her own behaviors are borderline stupid. Oh, she wears a mask everywhere and is fastidious about hand-washing, and all that. But she's been to the Poconos for a vacation, continues several "club" meetings, dines out at restaurants, and still shops at stores like nothing's changed. Even tho she's retired, she's still using an elderly woman to clean her house. She's even said that service-workers need people like her.

    It's hard to admit that family can be snobby hypocrites, and lose respect for them.
    Yikes. Well, if this pandemic has taught us anything, it's that educated people can be more stupid than less educated people. I have friends who have noted similar trends in their peer-groups—educated people being more careless, and more confident about their risk-assessments (that always, conveniently, carve out exceptions for their own behavior). Well, to each his own.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  22. #5362
    To each his own? Sorry, but that sucks during a pandemic. What I didn't explain is that my son had very carefully planned a recent visit with his girlfriend. He'd limited his contacts to about 3 people at work, and made sure his co-workers and girlfriend did the same, and they all got tested. He wanted to make sure he and his girlfriend, and all their contacts weren't asymptomatic carriers before the visit -- and I *really* needed that visit!

    When I told my sister how happy I was that he and his girlfriend would be visiting me, she immediately inserted herself into the equation and asked if she could come to town and take us all out to dinner. I was flummoxed, and resented her for messing up my son's carefully laid plans. It was hard to tell her NO, don't come, you've had too many contacts with too many people, and we certainly don't want to go out to dinner.....

    It was hard for my son to tell his Aunt that the timing was wrong, because he knew how much she wanted to see him and meet his girlfriend, the feeling was mutual! Awkward all around, dammit. But she's still coming this weekend just to see me, and I'm feeling uneasy about it, because she's had so many contacts/interactions, and I'm paranoid that she's been too lax in her contacts. (They're smart people, they can't possibly be asymptomatic carriers, right?)

    Thanksgiving is fucked. That would mean adding in-laws that also have contacts with other people, and their other contacts, like having sex with everyone they've ever had sex with, including strangers, and hoping not to be surprised by an STD.


  23. #5363
    This sounds really frustrating, but if there's one time when it's perfectly legitimate to say no thanks, please don't come... it's during a pandemic that has killed 200k people in one's country. When I said, "To each his own", I meant that you can't force people to look after themselves... but you can make sure they respect your boundaries. But I'm not gonna pretend it's easy... it's family, after all. I'm glad your son and his girlfriend were able to visit, and that they were so careful whatever you decide, and whatever happens, I hope you get through this all right.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  24. #5364
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Ouch, that does sound like a difficult situation to be in. I'm really sorry it's been that way. I agree that it's something that needs to be dealt with, if it's making you feel like there's no space for you in your shared life. There's an obvious problem with fairness and control based on what you describe. Pointing out hypocrisy and demanding arguments as justification does tend to make people dig in their heels, and talking about these things during or in conjunction to an argument/fight is difficult, but it can be difficult to know when to talk at all if you're afraid there'll be a difficult reaction no matter when you talk about it. With your job- & living situation being what it is, it can be even more difficult to approach this longstanding problem. You will need to talk about this, in a structured manner, at some point. The perfect time might never come, but you can try to agree on an okay time to talk about it, so that you're both prepared. This sort of thing results from personality traits and behaviors developed over the course of a lifetime, and relationship dynamics that become entrenched over a long time; doing something about it takes time, effort, commitment, awareness, a desire to change and a desire to respect one another. Agreeing on the problem and on some ground rules moving forward can help.

    I hope you do get a chance to sort this out. I can't offer any practical advice, but I will say that I've seen others in similar situations, some of whom have managed to work things out, and some who haven't. Even when personalities don't change, behaviors and the dynamic of a relationship can. My own relationship would've suffered from a similar imbalance—in my favor—had we not decided to make a conscious effort to make sure it didn't get to that point. As it is now, most of our decisions are shared, decisions made without consultation are never unacceptable, and we're both pretty good at handing over decisions we don't want to make. But it could easily have been very different, and I still have to make sure I'm not always getting things my way at her expense. My brother-in-law has been with his partner longer than I have been with mine, and their relationship seems—from the outside—to be extremely unbalanced in this respect, but they've somehow managed to agree on an approach that works for them, without one party being rolled over. So it's doable, and I hope things change for you guys. But, whether they do or not, I'm sorry you've had to feel like this for so long. You have had to deal with a lot of frustrating things over the past couple of years, and it's easy to feel like you have no control over your life, which is a shitty feeling. It's going to get better, and I hope it gets better soon. peace
    Really grateful for this reply. Helps me cheer up substantially, just to see someone care and put themselves in my shoes. I have actually noticed an improvement since this time, although I'm not completely clear as to why, and it's not necessarily consequent. But in certain situations, she is able to not let her emotions trigger and overflow as easily. She has taken a more timid and forgiving demeanor, which I am so happy about. That said, I have still experienced quite a few episodes since the last time I wrote. Last week for instance I got yelled at an entire evening because I shopped at the wrong convenience store, and thus overpaid a few dollars for food. We are both full time employees, she earns more than the average income here, and I do as well. So economy is not exactly scarce, and a 4-5 dollar difference should hardly warrant a full blown outrage.

    When these things happen, I try to hide away, whereas she feels that she only gets riled up even more by this notion. That's also part of the issue. Once she is "done" yelling, which can last anywhere between 20 minutes to an entire evening,, my emotional self is completely depleted. Even if we have ended the argument, all I want to do is be by myself to recharge. She, however, feels as though she cannot be alone or without me, after these incidents. Although I have tried to explain her this mechanism when she is calm - that I just need some time to recover mentally, she values in that time frame, her own needs to cuddle etc., above it. This isn spite of her being the one to have depleted my energy to rock bottom in the first place. I must admit I find that quite hard to deal with.

    Quote Originally Posted by rille View Post
    @Kazuha Vinland : are there kids involved or what is the long time plan?
    Kids not involved so far. Personally I would love to have kids in my future, but am really uncertain if it's the right thing to do. I don't know how her personality will react to having children. She claims that she would probably feel more calm, as she would get more attention from having them as well. Yet I'm afraid that her controlling personality, will mean that she has very tight standards for how the kids are supposed to be raised. She can be extremely protective. She will park in parking lots a great distance from the entrance, to avoid any potential accidental damage. If you open the door without looking, she can get very, very stressed. Driving her car is a nightmare, as the tiniest road bump or inaccurate gear change, leads to a scolding of how her car will depreciate significantly in value, and require repairs. In reality, most people wouldn't even blink an eye in the same scenarios, and not consider it an issue. Will that obsessiveness transfer to parenting? I'm super afraid it will, and hence have not had the confidence to make an attempt at pregnancy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    I'd consider going to a couple's counselor to work on your communication. It's best if she agrees to come along (but do NOT pressure her into it - it has to be purely voluntary, if she feels that it's something forced upon her then it won't work!) but it's also something you can do on your own.

    A counselor can help you to deal with the situation by providing an outside perspective and giving advice on how to approach such difficult topics on a productive basis.

    What it'll boil down to, however, is to find the underlying reason for her need to control such decisions (or, if I may be frank, it might also be a question of why you find her decision making so overbearing and if it is indeed the case!) Has she always been this way, was it a gradual change or did it ramp up suddenly? If the latter, what changed? If the former why is it suddenly an issue for you?

    That's also the reason why I advise a counselor - it makes it easier to ask the right questions. And knowing the root cause makes tackling the actual issue much easier (not simple, though!)
    To be honest, I know the root cause, and I'll just say it's traumatic and very deeply integrated into her. I have tried to suggest going to a psychiatrist, but she is really reluctant and non-willing to the idea, as she sees it as being diagnosed as "mentally ill". I've tried to tell her that clearing out your thoughts and scars from the past, is not about that, but alas.. So there is also that. I think that because of how deeply integrated this is, she cannot control these things from happening herself - at least not without any professional help. And that puts our relationship in quite a limbo. Am I capable of spending my life with her, with these episodes not ceasing, or should I simply see it as a bitter lost cause, and give up? To be frank, I don't know, and it certainly doesn't help that she is not in any way liable for what happened, and a victim at such. I feel guilty if I am to leave due to a stress she has to carry regardless of me being there for or not. In fact, I reckon I would further traumatize her, if I left, as she is suffering from separation anxiety to some extent as well.

    Sigh. This is not easy. At her best, she can be the most affectionate and sweet person I know, loyal and pure. And I love her family and friends. Yet I can't shake that these episodes are absolutely killing me, and they are so frequent the last few years, that they are in periods dominating our daily lives.

    But.. on the bright side, like I mentioned initially in this post, she has actually seemed to become more tolerant in certain areas, which is a positive sign of change, or ability to change. With my new line of work, I don't feel like I want to drastically change my relationship status, so hopefully, we can be at peace with each other in the upcoming months.
    Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?

  25. #5365
    Well, things just got more complicated. My ex-father-in-law died on the 17th, a couple of weeks short of his 94th birthday, due to Alzheimer's. He hadn't recognized anyone, and stopped talking and walking years ago, so his death wasn't a surprise, or even a bad thing....

    But they've planned a big funeral in Alabama, including a church service, with family coming from all over the country. It's weird because his only wishes were to be cremated and buried next to his wife -- he left all the other details up to his sons -- but they're not really considering the pandemic. My sons have already decided they're not going, but they're worried about their dad (the eldest son) because he's in a high-risk group, and all the other family members with compromised medical conditions, who'll be bringing great-grandbabies, and....

    Funerals are known super-spreader events. It just doesn't make sense to risk getting people sick -- or dying -- to memorialize someone who's already dead. It's not like they can't keep his ashes safe and wait for a better time, even if it takes months. That happens all the time, especially after disasters like hurricanes, blizzards, or wildfires.

  26. #5366
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazuha Vinland View Post
    To be honest, I know the root cause, and I'll just say it's traumatic and very deeply integrated into her. I have tried to suggest going to a psychiatrist, but she is really reluctant and non-willing to the idea, as she sees it as being diagnosed as "mentally ill". I've tried to tell her that clearing out your thoughts and scars from the past, is not about that, but alas.. So there is also that. I think that because of how deeply integrated this is, she cannot control these things from happening herself - at least not without any professional help. And that puts our relationship in quite a limbo. Am I capable of spending my life with her, with these episodes not ceasing, or should I simply see it as a bitter lost cause, and give up? To be frank, I don't know, and it certainly doesn't help that she is not in any way liable for what happened, and a victim at such. I feel guilty if I am to leave due to a stress she has to carry regardless of me being there for or not. In fact, I reckon I would further traumatize her, if I left, as she is suffering from separation anxiety to some extent as well.

    Sigh. This is not easy. At her best, she can be the most affectionate and sweet person I know, loyal and pure. And I love her family and friends. Yet I can't shake that these episodes are absolutely killing me, and they are so frequent the last few years, that they are in periods dominating our daily lives.

    But.. on the bright side, like I mentioned initially in this post, she has actually seemed to become more tolerant in certain areas, which is a positive sign of change, or ability to change. With my new line of work, I don't feel like I want to drastically change my relationship status, so hopefully, we can be at peace with each other in the upcoming months.
    Well, the only person you have control over is yourself. In that regard, when confronted by such issues, the person you have to look out for the most is yourself. A bit trite but true enough. One of the harder things to do is to know when to let go. Or when to keep on trying.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  27. #5367
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Well, things just got more complicated. My ex-father-in-law died on the 17th, a couple of weeks short of his 94th birthday, due to Alzheimer's. He hadn't recognized anyone, and stopped talking and walking years ago, so his death wasn't a surprise, or even a bad thing....

    But they've planned a big funeral in Alabama, including a church service, with family coming from all over the country. It's weird because his only wishes were to be cremated and buried next to his wife -- he left all the other details up to his sons -- but they're not really considering the pandemic. My sons have already decided they're not going, but they're worried about their dad (the eldest son) because he's in a high-risk group, and all the other family members with compromised medical conditions, who'll be bringing great-grandbabies, and....

    Funerals are known super-spreader events. It just doesn't make sense to risk getting people sick -- or dying -- to memorialize someone who's already dead. It's not like they can't keep his ashes safe and wait for a better time, even if it takes months. That happens all the time, especially after disasters like hurricanes, blizzards, or wildfires.
    Sorry to hear this.

    I assume there is no state-enforcement or rules currently preventing such large gatherings?

    Max number of people allowed for funerals here currently is 30, and no wake allowed afterward.

    Though I expect 30 to be significantly reduced in the coming days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  28. #5368
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    So I'm not exactly happy at my job lately and need to decide by next month or so whether I'd like to stay or not. Been looking around for options, one is an agency who are pretty good in things like coaching and training which I value highly. They got me an interview for a pretty interesting project, and the director there already said he'd like to hire me for the job if I'm interested after one interview, so that went extremely well.

    Cue initial contract discussions, and three agency offers me significantly less money than I expected. Turns out that because i didn't finish my MSc I'm essentially a scale lower than the job I'd be actually doing, and they say it's market conform for my CV. That may be the case, but if they're happy to charge a client based on my work level but want to pay me on a lower level.. that doesn't seem fair to me. I compared with people I know working there and they also got significantly more (around the amount I'd expect).

    I know it's a luxury position to be in, especially these days, but I feel it is a bit unfair. Will try to negotiate, which I don't like, and am not so good at.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  29. #5369
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    "Market conform for the CV"? Such bullshit. Pay should be according to the position you fill and the work you do.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  30. #5370
    Flixy: it’s more like the HR way of hiring people.
    Talk with them and see what they can do.

    I constantly meet managers that doesnt meet the requirement for an entry level developer position.
    So sometimes it’s a bit annoying :P but unless you work in a certificatable world it probably doesnt matter!

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