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Thread: Union Thugs and Intimidation

  1. #1

    Default Union Thugs and Intimidation

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/05/20...cmp=latestnews

    An Ohio teachers union is suing the school district in a Cleveland suburb for the names, addresses and phone numbers of hundreds of teachers who crossed the picket line during an acrimonious strike last year.

    During the eight-week-long strike in the Cleveland suburb of Strongsville more than a year ago, district officials brought in 372 substitute teachers to keep the classrooms open. When the subs crossed the picket line, there were the usual angry words and accusations. But when the strike ended, Cleveland Teachers Union Local 279, which represented the striking teachers, filed a Freedom of Information request for the names and addresses of all the substitute teachers.

    The district refused, citing safety concerns for the substitute teachers, but a court ruled in favor of the union. Now the case will be heard by the Buckeye State's Supreme Court, and some advocates of the open records law say the court must make the district comply.

    "Courts must set a high bar of evidentiary proof before undermining the Ohio open records law," Dennis Hetzel, executive director of Ohio Coalition for Open Government, told FoxNews.com.

    Despite the school district's claims that turning over the names could put the substitute teachers at risk of harassment or even harm, Hetzel said a decision to make such public information private could have a dangerous ripple effect on other cases of government transparency. He acknowledged that there are circumstances where keeping identities confidential is warranted, but he does not see it in this case.

    "The Ohio Supreme Court has upheld privacy restrictions on access to names and addresses in past cases but only involving people in positions such as undercover police officers or law enforcement officials who face clear, direct threats," Hetzel told FoxNews.com. "[But] expanding this protection to non-union teachers facing obviously concerning but generally nebulous threats during a labor dispute opens up a Pandora’s box of problems.

    "In effect, anyone who claims they feel or perceive a threat could dictate that open records be closed, and governmental bodies could be exposed to liability for even releasing those records," he said. "Taxpayers and parents certainly have an interest in knowing the identities of teachers who are hired."

    Union President David Quolke did not return multiple phone calls seeking comment. It remains unclear why the union is requesting all the names, addresses and phone numbers of the substitute teachers.

    District officials say the union used intimidation on the teachers during the strike, and giving the names of those who crossed the picket line could invite more of the same.

    "The names of the replacement teachers were not and still are not public record, given the numerous instances of threats of physical and non-physical harm made by persons in support of the striking teachers against the District’s replacement teachers," Christian Williams, an attorney representing the district, wrote in an e-mail to FoxNews.com.

    According to a merit brief filed with the Ohio Supreme Court on behalf of the district, the picketing outside Strongsville's council chambers the day the district began hiring substitute teachers left applicants "physically shaken."

    In the brief, which was obtained by FoxNews.com, the district claims that on March 3, 2013, substitute teacher applicants were followed by picketers as they walked into the building. The district said a group of 75 to 100 protesters were "yelling and screaming" at them until they entered their vehicles.

    "The picketers even yelled obscenities at a candidate who walked into the building with her two young children," the brief reads. Some of the applicants were forced to exit the building through a rear exit and with a police escort, according to district officials.

    The brief described the behavior of the picketers as "acts of harassment and intimidation" that raised "safety concerns."

    The district cites a March 7, 2013, incident in which Chris Koval, a SEA member and regular teacher employed by the school board, was arrested by the Strongsville Police Department for driving his vehicle in a "reckless manner" when he allegedly cut off a van transporting substitute teachers to work. The substitute teachers reported that Koval nearly caused a collision with their van. Six days later, another substitute teacher reported that she was driving home after working at one of the district's buildings when "a car pulled up next to her, yelled 'scab," and threw an object at her windshield, breaking the glass."

    The brief goes on to cite several instances in which substitute teachers were allegedly harassed, taunted and publicly shamed for working for the district. It also cites cases in which temporary teachers had their vehicles vandalized allegedly by protesters.

    "The temporary replacement teachers have a constitutional right to safety and security," the district asserted. "Disclosing their names would violate that right by exposing them to the risk of serious physical and non-physical harm, the scope of which it is not possible to know."

    But there is a good reason for teachers' names to be made public, said Columbus-based attorney Fred Gittes, who represents the Ohio Coalition for Open Government.

    "The public, especially parents, have a right and need to know who is going to be responsible for their kids for much of their day," Gittes said. "Because they are substitute teachers, you can't go to the state department of education and get information about them -- like checking to see if they're properly licensed or have a criminal background."

    ******

    Unions, the home of thugs. Past and present... hopefully not in the future.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ublic-support/

  2. #2
    And before anyone says that unions aren't violent these days...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqYfsACqfN8

  3. #3
    "No, no, we just want to send them pamphlets and ask them to join!!"

    Jesus what asshats. May they burn in the fire of public outrage
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  4. #4
    It's pretty clear they want to keep the teachers from ever finding a job in Ohio again. Nice people.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  5. #5
    This one has me conflicted. Maybe it's just a bad disclosure law. It's clear the union will use this list for nefarious purposes, but I don't like the idea of a school bureaucracy that won't respond to a formal request of who was actually teaching kids. Maybe the issue here really is the standing of the person making the request.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Which makes it even worse, because shit like this (especially if something happens with info from this) it threatens the FoI. Well, that's maybe an overstatement, but using it for the wrong reasons could weaken its support. Of course the whole point of it is that the reason isn't to be judged, but still annoying to see it abused.

    Though while I do see why it's good names of teachers should be disclosed (in general, not this particular case), why addresses as well? That seems like private information to me.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  7. #7
    Is this thread meant to debate/discuss Education, or Unions, or national policy, or what?

    We already know the USA has no united or comprehensive policy between its 50 states, even though we have a Department of Education, a Department of Labor....and all sorts of state departments operating under the auspice of united government policy.


    A group of activists decide to run for the local School Board. They're legitimate district tax payers. They're elected by a majority of voters, and begin de-funding public school budgets for all sorts of services they believe the private sector should provide....because it turns out they're Home Schoolers, or religious fundies. Are they saving tax-payer dollars or undermining national unity in their pursuits?

    If you can answer that with credibility and authority, you're probably not influencing Washington, DC politicians or US policy.

  8. #8

  9. #9
    Check your public radio broadcasts for more information, Lewk.

    You won't get the whole story from any one source.

  10. #10
    This thread is about union thugs and intimidation, surprisingly enough an accurate and apropos topic title from Lewk
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  11. #11
    Well, the Freedom of Information Act and Sunshine Laws can be directly traced to intimidating corporate secrecy, and challenges from unions....but that's not what Lewk had in mind when he started the thread.

  12. #12
    I thought FOIA and the like are supposed to keep the govt. well-behaved
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  13. #13
    They're also meant to keep the public fully informed. Lewk (and Fox news) is trying to portray teacher unions as the bad guy as part of their political agenda.

    The only reason they can get away with that is because substitute teachers don't have to meet union standards in certain states. Is that supposed to make parents feel better about their child's teacher, their education, or their tax burdens?

    That's why I mentioned the PBS report about home-schoolers who were elected to the public school board, under the auspice of financial conservatism, and proceeded to cut funding for all sorts of public education programs.

    The broader question is how we can give the best education to the most kids, using the best teachers. But guys like Lewk begin with the premise that anything "public" is bad, and akin to pink communism.....because it doesn't teach biblical interpretations as scientific truths.

    It's kinda crazy that Lewk's mentality is extreme or radical...but since it's based on Judeo-Christian principles we're reluctant to question or criticize the particulars. It gets scarier when he (and his political party) move from public education to national defense, and military offensives....and cite God as their moral leader.

    God bless America, huh.


  14. #14
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    What a wide net you cast and yet totally miss the target.
    Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    I thought FOIA and the like are supposed to keep the govt. well-behaved
    No, it is, it has nothing to do with "intimidating corporate secrecy" or the like. Just like her counter-example has absolutely nothing to do with anything the thread is talking about beyond both involving schools in some fashion.

    And GGT, if people run for something under the slogan of "fiscal conservativism" and then proceed to cut spending, then I think they're doing exactly what they were elected for. But more importantly, there is no "broader question" for this thread or its topic. There is no national issue or cause for any sort of universal or comprehensive policy anywhere here. This is about a group of people abusing a necessary and legitimate tool for reining in the government to intimidate other private individuals who are not behaving the way the group wants them to (and personally, while I can empathize with the frustration and anger strikers feel at what "scabs" do, the scabs are pretty much never a legitimate target for those emotions. They are invariably doing even worse than the strikers are)
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    No, it is, it has nothing to do with "intimidating corporate secrecy" or the like. Just like her counter-example has absolutely nothing to do with anything the thread is talking about beyond both involving schools in some fashion.

    And GGT, if people run for something under the slogan of "fiscal conservativism" and then proceed to cut spending, then I think they're doing exactly what they were elected for. But more importantly, there is no "broader question" for this thread or its topic. There is no national issue or cause for any sort of universal or comprehensive policy anywhere here. This is about a group of people abusing a necessary and legitimate tool for reining in the government to intimidate other private individuals who are not behaving the way the group wants them to (and personally, while I can empathize with the frustration and anger strikers feel at what "scabs" do, the scabs are pretty much never a legitimate target for those emotions. They are invariably doing even worse than the strikers are)
    It depends on what types of cutting they do to balance a budget, and whether that's "fiscal conservatism" that seems pleasant in the short-term, but is actually harmful in the long run.

    If you want to focus on any "abuse" or exploitations by certain groups....then you should be honest, and acknowledge that money talks---and that most profits go to top corporations because they can buy politicians who write policy.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    If you want to focus on any "abuse" or exploitations by certain groups....then you should be honest, and acknowledge that money talks---and that most profits go to top corporations because they can buy politicians who write policy.
    I should only acknowledge that (and not doing so is only not honest) if corporate lobbyists buying/writing/influencing is in some fashion relevant to the abuse or exploitation being discussed. Do you have any sort of evidence, or even a substantial chain of logic, which would suggest that a reasonable person might think the expected use this FOIA request falls under some sort of nefarious corporate interest? Because I'm pretty sure there isn't any which would make "union retaliation against scabs" an anticipated, intended, or reasonable use of the Act's powers. IN particular seeing as there simply isn't any corporate interest or involvement with the substitute teachers in that public school system.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    I should only acknowledge that (and not doing so is only not honest) if corporate lobbyists buying/writing/influencing is in some fashion relevant to the abuse or exploitation being discussed. Do you have any sort of evidence, or even a substantial chain of logic, which would suggest that a reasonable person might think the expected use this FOIA request falls under some sort of nefarious corporate interest? Because I'm pretty sure there isn't any which would make "union retaliation against scabs" an anticipated, intended, or reasonable use of the Act's powers. IN particular seeing as there simply isn't any corporate interest or involvement with the substitute teachers in that public school system.
    Hang on. Where do you think the abuses and exploitations come from in the first place?

  19. #19
    In this case? The Law of Unintended Consequences. I know you're conspiracy-minded but it's really not necessary to design legislation to be subvertable. That's going to happen by accident anyway.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  20. #20
    Can we agree that contracts are written by powerful entities, that low-level workers can't match without a union rep?

  21. #21
    That's so over-generalized that no, I can't acknowledge it. Luckily, it's not something we have to agree on or discuss at all because contracts, worker/employer power disparities, and the benefit of union reps have absolutely nothing to do with FOIA requests.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

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