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Thread: Obama's Immigration Gambit- Laws of Man, Not Rule of Law

  1. #1

    Default Obama's Immigration Gambit- Laws of Man, Not Rule of Law

    Ironic that Obama is so decisively pushing the US ever-further towards this unholy place of laws-of-man instead of rule-of-law.

    This seems like a really really bad idea that will close the doors on real immigration to open up our borders in a positive way.

    For Obama, Executive Order on Immigration Would Be a Turnabout
    By MICHAEL D. SHEARNOV. 17, 2014

    WASHINGTON — President Obama is poised to ignore stark warnings that executive action on immigration would amount to “violating our laws” and would be “very difficult to defend legally.”

    Those warnings came not from Republican lawmakers but from Mr. Obama himself.

    For years, he has waved aside the demands of Latino activists and Democratic allies who begged him to act on his own, and he insisted publicly that a decision to shield millions of immigrants from deportation without an act of Congress would amount to nothing less than the dictates of a king, not a president.

    In a Telemundo interview in September 2013, Mr. Obama said he was proud of having protected the “Dreamers” — people who came to the United States illegally as young children — from deportation. But he also said that he could not apply that same action to other groups of people.

    If we start broadening that, then essentially I’ll be ignoring the law in a way that I think would be very difficult to defend legally,” Mr. Obama told Jose Diaz-Balart in the interview. “So that’s not an option.”

    But Mr. Obama is set to effectively reverse position from that statement and now says he believes that such actions can be “legally unassailable,” as a senior White House official put it last week. Mr. Obama is expected to announce plans soon to expand the program for Dreamers to shield up to five million people from deportation and provide work permits for many of them.

    The president insisted over the weekend that he had not changed his position. During a news conference in Australia, he said that his earlier answers about the limits of his executive authority were prompted by people who asked him whether he could enact, by fiat, a bipartisan immigration bill that had passed the Senate, which would have provided a path to legalization for more of the 11 million unauthorized immigrants here.

    “Getting a comprehensive deal of the sort that is in the Senate legislation, for example, does extend beyond my legal authorities,” Mr. Obama said Sunday. “There are certain things I cannot do.”

    In fact, most of the questions that were posed to the president over the past several years were about the very thing that he is expected to announce within a matter of days: whether he could do something to reduce deportations and keep families together if Congress would not act.

    The president was pressed on that very issue during a Google Hangout in February 2013. An activist asked whether he could do more to keep families from being “broken apart” while Congress remained gridlocked on immigration legislation.

    “This is something that I have struggled with throughout my presidency,” Mr. Obama said. “The problem is, is that I’m the president of the United States, I’m not the emperor of the United States. My job is to execute laws that are passed.”

    The president has at times hinted at his ability to make changes to the way immigration laws are enforced. In an interview in January 2013, Mr. Obama said that “we’ve got some discretion. We can prioritize what we do.” At a forum in March of this year, Mr. Obama talked about the need to focus enforcement on criminals and gang members, and not on others.

    White House officials said Monday that the change in the president’s comments over the years reflects a change in emphasis, not a change in opinion. They said Mr. Obama’s previous comments emphasized the limits of his authority because at the time he was actively making the case for Congress to pass an immigration overhaul. Now, he emphasizes his ability to act.

    Officials have said the president could announce a series of executive actions as early as this week. The move comes after a concerted lobbying campaign by immigration advocates demanding presidential action in the face of 400,000 deportations every year. And it reflects the president’s frustration that Republicans have blocked all efforts to pass immigration legislation.

    At the news conference in Australia over the weekend, Mr. Obama implored Congress to pass a bill that would secure the border, revamp the legal immigration system and legalize many of the 11 million unauthorized immigrants living in the United States.

    “Give me a bill that addresses those issues,” he said at the Group of 20 summit meeting in Brisbane, Australia. “I’ll be the first one to sign it and, metaphorically, I’ll crumple up whatever executive actions that we take and we’ll toss them in the wastebasket.”

    White House officials said the House speaker, John A. Boehner, made it clear that Republicans, who control both chambers in Congress next year, have no intention of passing a bill that the president could agree with. They note that Mr. Obama delayed any executive action throughout 2013 and 2014, hoping that Mr. Boehner would allow a vote in the House on a bipartisan bill that passed the Senate.

    When that did not happen by the summer, officials said, Mr. Obama decided he should act on his own.

    That decision puts the president in a different public posture from the one he offered in numerous interviews and speeches since 2010. In those settings, Mr. Obama was repeatedly urged to act on his own to reduce the number of families that were being separated by deportations. He rejected that idea and urged people to pressure Republicans in Congress to pass a bill.

    In an immigration speech in San Francisco last November, protesters repeatedly interrupted the president, yelling, “Stop deportations!” Mr. Obama told the protesters that he respected their “passion,” but insisted that only Congress had the authority to do what they wanted.

    “The easy way out is to try to yell and pretend like I can do something by violating our laws,” he said. “And what I’m proposing is the harder path.”

    And at a Town Hall in March of 2011, months before taking action to keep the Dreamers from being deported, Mr. Obama said the nation’s laws were clear enough “that for me to simply, through executive order, ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as president.”

    Republicans have seized on Mr. Obama’s past statements as evidence of what they call a shaky legal foundation for the president’s expected actions. In an email to reporters, the Republican National Committee on Monday asked, “When did we add a ‘politically convenient clause’ to the Constitution in the last four years?”

    During the news conference, Mr. Obama said that in recent months he received legal advice from Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. about the limits of what he could do to reshape the immigration system.

    What seems clear is that the legal advice will support Mr. Obama’s current statements about his executive powers, not his previous ones.

    “I would be derelict in my duties if I did not try to improve the system that everybody acknowledges is broken,” he said Sunday.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/18/us...ld-stance.html

  2. #2
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    Your point being? I think if there's one thing that's eminently clear it would be that no matter how you tackle the legality of the problem, deporting those numbers of people is simply not feasible. And in my personal opinion, unnecessary at the best and potentially even harmful.
    Congratulations America

  3. #3
    Dread, surely you recognize the position Obama was espousing. It was identical to the one he kept saying for why he couldn't do anything regarding gay rights. That's his stock response to activism from/for Democratic groups which the former Chicago alderman just doesn't care about. Doesn't mean the claim is accurate, it doesn't have to be, it's only an excuse. Now it's been pointed out to him that we've just finished an election cycle, he's not up for reelection and even if he doesn't care about that particular constituency acting can't hurt him in any way and it is a cause which lots of other Dem interests care about so just do it already.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Dread, surely you recognize the position Obama was espousing. It was identical to the one he kept saying for why he couldn't do anything regarding gay rights. That's his stock response to activism from/for Democratic groups which the former Chicago alderman just doesn't care about. Doesn't mean the claim is accurate, it doesn't have to be, it's only an excuse. Now it's been pointed out to him that we've just finished an election cycle, he's not up for reelection and even if he doesn't care about that particular constituency acting can't hurt him in any way and it is a cause which lots of other Dem interests care about so just do it already.
    To my knowledge, Obama was never an alderman of Chicago or anywhere else. He was a state senator for Illinois, but I don't believe he held any previous political office.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Ironic that Obama is so decisively pushing the US ever-further towards this unholy place of laws-of-man instead of rule-of-law.
    He's not the first President to use Executive Authority on immigration issues, ya know. Changing how deportation is enforced, and how work permits are issued is a "legal" thing for the executive branch to address, afaik.

    This seems like a really really bad idea that will close the doors on real immigration to open up our borders in a positive way.
    Or.....it could be just what the House and Senate need to get off their butts, and finally pass some real, comprehensive immigration (and deportation) legislation.

  6. #6
    This just sets a bad, bad precedent. I'm sure the left-wing vanguard of the (ironically-named?) Democratic Party won't be as happy if the next Republican president decides the tax code is too complex, we can't wait for Congress for a fix and so we "must" stop collecting taxes disliked by rich donors. Process matters, and this is a bad way to approach immigration reform or any other major political issue.

    From abortion to gay marriage to immigration, the modern left in the US can't seem to translate winning elections to actually making constructive policy changes.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    This just sets a bad, bad precedent.
    What, Presidents acting on their own without Congress? Sorry Dread, you're going to have to take your objection to the establishing precedent back a lot farther than Obama if you want to complain about the "Imperial Presidency." Arguably you're going to have to go back as far as Teddy, he sowed the ground for a strong executive, unhobbled by the need to kowtow to Congress.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    This just sets a bad, bad precedent. I'm sure the left-wing vanguard of the (ironically-named?) Democratic Party won't be as happy if the next Republican president decides the tax code is too complex, we can't wait for Congress for a fix and so we "must" stop collecting taxes disliked by rich donors. Process matters, and this is a bad way to approach immigration reform or any other major political issue.

    From abortion to gay marriage to immigration, the modern left in the US can't seem to translate winning elections to actually making constructive policy changes.
    Interesting how you choose to ignore that it's not about the 'modern left' that the power of the electorate is severely curtailed in your system of government. From the very beginning the purpose was to avoid the tyranny of the masses you show yourself a friend of.
    Congratulations America

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