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Thread: Abortion and liberals/conservatives: is it a contradiction?

  1. #1

    Default Abortion and liberals/conservatives: is it a contradiction?

    Abortion saves money because society doesn't have to pay for unwanted children that the mother will likely not support. (thus forcing society to support the kids)

    Isn't funding abortion just a little bit good for society?

    Liberals want a nanny state which means society pays for all sorts of destructive behavior of its citizens. (drugs, violence, cheating the system are responded with by low jail terms and economic assistance)

    Even though these two positions are politically congruent, are they economically incongruent? (Same question for conservatives.) Or does funding abortion with federal dollars create an incentive for more women to have abortions and do it more / not use contraceptives "because the federal government will pay for my abortion, anyway"?
    Last edited by agamemnus; 03-16-2010 at 05:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by agamemnus View Post
    Liberals want a nanny state which means society pays for all sorts of destructive behavior of its citizens.
    I sense with opening posts like these discussion will be deep and insightful. To prevent being accused of not being constructive in such a fine thread, I will reply on topic by defending my misslabled left-wing brethren.

    Conservatives are in the corporate pocket and as soon as they figure out how to exploit abortion, for instance So You Want to Be a Failed Mom, they'll support the hell out of it. As it stands they figure abortion robs them of lowlife plebs who can slave in their factories for dimes.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
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    But sometimes I hit London

  3. #3
    Even if people do use abortions as a crude and ill-advised form of contraception, the end result would be sweet.

    Fortunately, while liberals are probably more likely to have abortions, they are also more likely to have sensible attitudes towards the use of contraception. This is because true liberals are generally well-educated and we'll find greater gender-equality among liberals

    It stands to reason that it would be economically sound to transform all societies into liberal ones.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  4. #4
    I think that is one angle to view abortion. It's one that I agree with -- why should anyone have to raise an unwanted child?

    But conservatives don't believe in many kinds of benefits, so it's kind of a moot point, mais non?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by agamemnus View Post
    Abortion saves money because society doesn't have to pay for unwanted children that the mother will likely not support. (thus forcing society to support the kids)

    Isn't funding abortion just a little bit good for society?
    Yes, that's one plus of abortion.

    Liberals want a nanny state which means society pays for all sorts of destructive behavior of its citizens. (drugs, violence, cheating the system are responded with by low jail terms and economic assistance)
    All stereotyping propaganda aside, liberals support personal freedom, which is why they generally support a woman's right to choose abortion or not. Conservatives tend to want to control other people's sexuality for some reason, and that's not a stereotype.

    Or does funding abortion with federal dollars create an incentive for more women to have abortions and do it more / not use contraceptives "because the federal government will pay for my abortion, anyway"?
    Federal funding of abortions will make them more available to the people who need them most, for whatever reason.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by agamemnus View Post

    Liberals want a nanny state (...)
    After all these years, the American use of the word liberal still doesn't make any sense to me
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    After all these years, the American use of the word liberal still doesn't make any sense to me
    Well, first of all that's a deceitful propaganda slur, so the first step in understanding what an American liberal is should be to discard it and look elsewhere.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Well, first of all that's a deceitful propaganda slur, so the first step in understanding what an American liberal is should be to discard it and look elsewhere.
    My post is not without irony, just to make that clear.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    My post is not without irony, just to make that clear.
    Oh. Ok. Sorry.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  10. #10
    American conservatives also tend to be religious Christians. They're not just thinking about money (in fact, considering the deficits under Bush, one might argue they don't really care about money at all).
    Hope is the denial of reality

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    American conservatives also tend to be religious Christians. They're not just thinking about money (in fact, considering the deficits under Bush, one might argue they don't really care about money at all).
    There are no monetary debts once the Rapture arrives, none at least that the chosen have to worry about, only those left behind have to worry...
    . . .

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    American conservatives also tend to be religious Christians. They're not just thinking about money (in fact, considering the deficits under Bush, one might argue they don't really care about money at all).
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    There are no monetary debts once the Rapture arrives, none at least that the chosen have to worry about, only those left behind have to worry...
    Faithless fools. The Lord shall provide.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  13. #13
    It's a mistake to thin of 'liberalism' and 'conservatism' in America as coherent, systematic ideologies. I mean, there's 500 million Americas, do you really think they all hold one of two possible sets of opinions on every single issue?

    Liberals want a nanny state which means society pays for all sorts of destructive behavior of its citizens.
    You could at least try and pretend you think for yourself.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's a mistake to thin of 'liberalism' and 'conservatism' in America as coherent, systematic ideologies. I mean, there's 500 million Americas, do you really think they all hold one of two possible sets of opinions on every single issue?



    You could at least try and pretend you think for yourself.
    That's 50% more Americans than we were told about.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  15. #15
    Sorry, it's 300 milliion isn't it? I got it mixed up with the EU.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Sorry, it's 300 milliion isn't it? I got it mixed up with the EU.
    Quantity over quality...
    . . .

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's a mistake to think of 'liberalism' and 'conservatism' in America as coherent, systematic ideologies. I mean, there are 300 million Americans, do you really think they all hold one of two possible sets of opinions on every single issue? (fixed, no need to thank me)
    Well, just how many Republican lawmakers are for abortion? 0, I think. Some democrats seem to be against abortion. That's an interesting split there. At the very least, those Democrats (12 in the House) are against the idea that Congress can use tricky wording in the healthcare bill to effectively silently override the law as it stands -- that is, no money for abortion unless in extreme cases.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    I mean, there's 500 million Americas, do you really think
    300 million. And there's tremendous variablity. It's only our party system, and the general media, that pretends we're idiotically simple.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  19. #19
    A thread of absolutes. Let me try!
    Quote Originally Posted by agamemnus View Post
    Well, just how many Republican lawmakers are for abortion? 0, I think.
    Why educate themselves on an issue that should never come up? They spend way to much time hiding their gay love affairs to worry about abortions caused by heterosexual relations.

  20. #20
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's a mistake to thin of 'liberalism' and 'conservatism' in America as coherent, systematic ideologies. I mean, there's 500 million Americas, do you really think they all hold one of two possible sets of opinions on every single issue?
    Well, it's a two party state after all.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  21. #21
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    A thread of absolutes. Let me try!


    Why educate themselves on an issue that should never come up? They spend way to much time hiding their gay love affairs to worry about abortions caused by heterosexual relations.


    Funny cause it's true!

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by agamemnus View Post
    Well, just how many Republican lawmakers are for abortion? 0, I think.
    Didn't Scott Brown say he was pro-choice?

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