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Thread: Net Neutrality is BS

  1. #91
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    Please elaborate. And don't try to pull of a GGT redefinition trick.

    People? Which people? People I care about?
    The massive regulatory bible the FCC voted-on a few weeks ago was only released last week. It will take a long time for many issues to be sorted out, but the core issue is the FCC is seizing jurisdiction of the Web via a 1930s law for telephone carriers. In order to do this, they have to run in circles and regulate non-discriminatory "rates" for the Internet much like phone calls were priced.

    This opens the door to a great deal of stupidity because, after all, this is a 1930s law being applied to infrastructure far beyond the imagination of the people who drafted the law. This opens the FCC to any number of lawsuits, which could be used to discourage competitive negotiations for edge caching and other things that big companies like Netflix, Google, Facebook, etc. use to not slow-down Web traffic.

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    the FCC is seizing jurisdiction of the Web via a 1930s law for telephone carriers.
    God forbid they modernize a law like title II. its not like you live nearly every aspect of your life governed under a document that was written 200+ years ago For the love of god Dread use your own brain on this one instead of regurgitating broken talking points, especially the ones Wheeler himself has addressed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    discourage competitive negotiations for edge caching and other things that big companies like Netflix, Google, Facebook, etc. use to not slow-down Web traffic.
    You seem confused, still, that edge caching and CDNs (that you tried to sneak into your last post) means preferential treatment.

    which only reinforces the obvious issue that you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 03-17-2015 at 07:54 PM.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  3. #93
    Senior Member earthJoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    The massive regulatory bible the FCC voted-on a few weeks ago was only released last week. It will take a long time for many issues to be sorted out, but the core issue is the FCC is seizing jurisdiction of the Web via a 1930s law for telephone carriers. In order to do this, they have to run in circles and regulate non-discriminatory "rates" for the Internet much like phone calls were priced.

    This opens the door to a great deal of stupidity because, after all, this is a 1930s law being applied to infrastructure far beyond the imagination of the people who drafted the law. This opens the FCC to any number of lawsuits, which could be used to discourage competitive negotiations for edge caching and other things that big companies like Netflix, Google, Facebook, etc. use to not slow-down Web traffic.
    Are we arguing about net neutrality in general or the regulations by the FCC? Because I have to admit, if you want to talk about the second, I am not interested.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    Are we arguing about net neutrality in general or the regulations by the FCC? Because I have to admit, if you want to talk about the second, I am not interested.
    Ah so do you support congress passing legislation or FCC making unilateral rulings? If you support the latter than it absolutely is about the FCC.

  5. #95
    Senior Member earthJoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Ah so do you support congress passing legislation or FCC making unilateral rulings? If you support the latter than it absolutely is about the FCC.
    The internal political process of the United States of America is - other than for my entertainment - not of my concerns.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  6. #96
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Fair enough, the internal dynamics of the US are understandably less interesting. Except that I think the dynamics of net-neutrality in the US are inextricably linked to the way this policy is being pursued; the people who want net neutrality want a state-directed command-and-control system to manage the Internet.

  7. #97
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Is that even true?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #98
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Naw, he's gone full-blown Kathsung.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  9. #99
    Senior Member earthJoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Fair enough, the internal dynamics of the US are understandably less interesting. Except that I think the dynamics of net-neutrality in the US are inextricably linked to the way this policy is being pursued; the people who want net neutrality want a state-directed command-and-control system to manage the Internet.
    Who are "the people" you are keep talking about? The Illuminati?
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Naw, he's gone full-blown Kathsung.
    I don't know if it's quite that bad, but the rhetoric sure is there.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  11. #101
    That's no moon. EyeKhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    I don't know if it's quite that bad, but the rhetoric sure is there.
    I think Dread is trolling you guys.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  12. #102
    Found a comment concerning the latest FCC remarks that makes this all very simple:

    The people providing a service with historically low customer satisfaction and little to no competition are against a set of rules.

    The overwhelming majority of people who use the service extensively historically feel grossly overcharged for the service and grossly under served by the consistency and quality of said service. Said users agree with the new set of rules.

    Vast majority of users who are OPPOSED to new rules are unable to articulate any real specifics as to why they are opposed, beyond falsely identifying it as a "Government takeover", even though the rules literally give the government no powers regarding the internet whatsoever, but only limit the things ISPs can do.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  13. #103
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    So, this is a thing again and we should probably do a thread on it, or maybe just reuse this one?
    The walls are coming down.
    All we need is one to fail, one to break, one to take it all away.
    What if we crumble, what if we fall? Where's the flame that torch the soul?
    Truth, when spoken, dies down to nothing.

  14. #104
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    I don't think Dread will have the energy to continue this discussion given how much effort it'll take him to hand-wave away the other disturbing political developments of the past few months. Defending the tax bill alone would be a full-time job.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  15. #105
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Ha ha, Ajit Pai is a former employee of Verizon.

    #seemslegit
    The walls are coming down.
    All we need is one to fail, one to break, one to take it all away.
    What if we crumble, what if we fall? Where's the flame that torch the soul?
    Truth, when spoken, dies down to nothing.

  16. #106
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    http://www.oswegocountynewsnow.com/n...0864b1c44.html

    "Patrick D. Angelo, 28, of Syracuse, is charged with interstate communication of a threat and threatening a federal official, and faces a maximum of 10 years in prison or a $250,000 fine according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Western District of New York, which is handling the case.

    Angelo allegedly called Katko’s Washington, D.C. offices on Oct. 19 and threatened the congressman and his family over proposed changes to net neutrality rules from the Federal Communications Commission.

    “Listen Mr. Katko, if you support net neutrality, I will support you. But if you don’t support net neutrality, I will find you and your family and I will kill … you … all. Do you understand? I will literally find all … of … you and your progeny and just wipe you from the face of the Earth. Net neutrality is more important than the defense of the United States. Net neutrality is more important than free speech. Net neutrality is more important than health care. Net neutrality is literally the basis of the new … free society. So if you don’t support it, I am willing to lay down my li-,” Angelo said in the message before it ended, according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office.

    Katko’s office reported the voicemail to the U.S. Capitol Police’s Threat Assessment Section, prompting an investigation coordinated with the Federal Bureau of Investigation."

    Dumb ass is going to jail. I love the crazy hyperbole the net has pushed with Net Neutrality, "more important than free speech."

  17. #107
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    I don't think Dread will have the energy to continue this discussion given how much effort it'll take him to hand-wave away the other disturbing political developments of the past few months. Defending the tax bill alone would be a full-time job.
    Oh great, let's switch the Internet from a 1996 light-touch legislative approach and unilaterally re-classify the Internet to operate under laws established for wireline phones in the 1930s. We all know the Internet was just awful before this lovely Title II Net Neutrality thing

  18. #108
    The internet exploded under dialup, using phone lines, phone lines classed as a utility. A setup that allowed for competition, which resulted in competitive prices (all the way down to free), expansion, and a focus on maintenance and customer service. You have an ignorantly short memory of how the internet was and is. But here is a short recap of shit thats actually happened, to give a glimpse into how the internet would look without the threat of net neutrality:

    2005 - Madison River Communications was blocking VOIP services. The FCC put a stop to it.
    2005 - Comcast was denying access to p2p services without notifying customers.
    2007-2009 - AT&T was having Skype and other VOIPs blocked because they didn't like there was competition for their cellphones.
    2011 - MetroPCS tried to block all streaming except youtube. (edit: they actually sued the FCC over this)
    2011-2013, AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon were blocking access to Google Wallet because it competed with their bullshit. edit: this one happened literally months after the trio were busted collaborating with Google to block apps from the android marketplace
    2012, Verizon was demanding google block tethering apps on android because it let owners avoid their $20 tethering fee. This was despite guaranteeing they wouldn't do that as part of a winning bid on an airwaves auction. (edit: they were fined $1.25million over this)
    2012, AT&T - tried to block access to FaceTime unless customers paid more money.
    2013, Verizon literally stated that the only thing stopping them from favoring some content providers over other providers were the net neutrality rules in place.
    2017, Comcast removes its pledge to not prioritize Internet traffic or create paid fast lanes (a day after the FCC announced plans to destroy network neutrality.)
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 12-04-2017 at 04:04 PM.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  19. #109
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Aaaaaaannnnd it's gone.

    Let's see who was right.
    The walls are coming down.
    All we need is one to fail, one to break, one to take it all away.
    What if we crumble, what if we fall? Where's the flame that torch the soul?
    Truth, when spoken, dies down to nothing.

  20. #110
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    2005 - Comcast was denying access to p2p services without notifying customers.
    Don't the new rules still block this? I.e. they can throttle services but must notify customers that they're doing so.

    Albeit that notification is likely in the form of some unread small print.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Don't the new rules still block this? I.e. they can throttle services but must notify customers that they're doing so.

    Albeit that notification is likely in the form of some unread small print.
    blocking and throttling are different actions. They straight broke p2p back in the day. I wouldn't put it past them to notify customers via 400+ lines of java code injection.

    Not that a notification, in any form, is any better considering how many people are stuck under them without a choice in providers.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  22. #112
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Hope is the denial of reality

  23. #113
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    Oh man that video though is hilarious. So many liberals got upset about it.

  24. #114
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Pizzagate was funny, too?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Pizzagate was funny, too?
    Nah Pizzagate was stupid.

  26. #116
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Pizzagate was funny, too?
    Don't feed the troll.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

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