What's NASA Up To And Other Space Stuff

[EyeKhan]

Just curious, what do you mean by poorly characterized? The fact that it's a unique observation? Or is there something wrong with the observations of the object?

[wiggin]

Just curious, what do you mean by poorly characterized? The fact that it's a unique observation? Or is there something wrong with the observations of the object?

We're inferring pretty much everything from the intensity and position of a single pixel. There's a lot of room for error.

[EyeKhan]

We're inferring pretty much everything from the intensity and position of a single pixel. There's a lot of room for error.

I think the author is actually engaging in what-about-ism there: "You're dismissing the artificial object hypothesis because's it's so outrageous? What about invisible, untouchable dark matter? What about ten or twelve odd invisible dimensions? We hypothesize all kinds of outrageous things, that's no reason to dismiss this hypothesis." I don't really see the point of arguing it could be or can't be an artificial object - the discussion should be whether or not it's worth the expense required to go look at it, because those questions need more data to be answered. I think the author's argument to spend some effort to find other extra-solar objects is reasonable, however.

[Steely Glint]

I think the author is actually engaging in what-about-ism there: "You're dismissing the artificial object hypothesis because's it's so outrageous? What about invisible, untouchable dark matter? What about ten or twelve odd invisible dimensions? We hypothesize all kinds of outrageous things, that's no reason to dismiss this hypothesis." I don't really see the point of arguing it could be or can't be an artificial object - the discussion should be whether or not it's worth the expense required to go look at it, because those questions need more data to be answered. I think the author's argument to spend some effort to find other extra-solar objects is reasonable, however.

We only have invisible untouchable dark matter or extra dimensions in our theories because of certain observations we haven't been able to fit into theories any other way, despite theorists bending over backwards to get rid of them.

Oumuamua, on the other hand, is the other way around: people are so in love with the alien probe hypothesis that they're bending over backwards to make it work, and giving it the tiniest benefit of the doubt. When 'Oumuamua is aliens' has been attacked with the same rigour dark matter has and survived, we'll talk. But I'm pretty sure if you subjected it to that level of attack it would be reduced to a smoking hole in the ground.

Even if the object was artificial, its presence in Solar system doesn't have to be intentional. I mean, our Voyager probes might eventually wind up at another star system, after all. Therefore, the reason the craft appears inefficient or ill-suited for any particular purpose could be that it doesn't have any purpose.

Up against the 'sky must be full of alien probes or else ginormous co-incidence' objection that was supposed to cast doubt on Oumuamua being an natural object in the first place.

[EyeKhan]

We only have invisible untouchable dark matter or extra dimensions in our theories because of certain observations we haven't been able to fit into theories any other way, despite theorists bending over backwards to get rid of them.

Not quite backwards. Given that no evidence for dark matter has been found, despite a lot of looking, the possibility that our theory of gravity needs revision is being increasingly entertained.

Oumuamua, on the other hand, is the other way around: people are so in love with the alien probe hypothesis that they're bending over backwards to make it work, and giving it the tiniest benefit of the doubt.

Not quite backwards. That object is very odd, unlike anything observed before. That's a fact. Observational data seems to align well with what a solar sail would be expected to look like. That's all anyone serious has said, as far as I know. And that only to grab popular attention, presumably to drum up support for a mission to investigate it.

My thinking is that if it were a solar sail, an interstellar vehicle, why in the world is it so small? I'd always thought bigger is better with a sail.

When 'Oumuamua is aliens' has been attacked with the same rigour dark matter has and survived, we'll talk. But I'm pretty sure if you subjected it to that level of attack it would be reduced to a smoking hole in the ground.

At least with 'Oumuamua, there's something to look at. With dark matter, it's a big fucking guess. "Something is producing more gravity than should be there, based on what we can see. Matter produces gravity, so it must be matter we can't see -- dark matter." Wow. Rigorous theorizing.


You know, maybe these two things are related. The universe's missing matter mystery is really that most of the stars in the universe are behind Dyson shells so efficient they are capturing even the infrared energy physicists say should leak out. And that means the universe is positively FILLED with interstellar probe junk, and it's rather a miracle this is the first time we've encountered such an object. Two birds, one stone, mystery solved. Next question, please.