Murder

[Hazir]

Seeing the pictures of the Walter Scott murder, I wonder if people still think I am exagerating for looking at the police in the US as being armed and dangerous.

[Timbuk2]

You're only exaggerating if you're not black.

[Flixy]

[Loki]

Seeing the pictures of the Walter Scott murder, I wonder if people still think I am exagerating for looking at the police in the US as being armed and dangerous.

First, I think the cop should get life in prison at the very least and should certainly be a candidate for the death penalty. But come on. How many people get murdered in St. Louis alone? Don't get into a fight with an armed cop and you'll be fine.

[Khendraja'aro]

I was astounded when they reported how short the training for police officers can be. Mere weeks up to half a year.

Over here it's two and a half years minimum.

[EyeKhan]

This is pretty funny. And weirdly accurate.

Do you have a higher rez copy?

Never mind, I went to the source.

[Wraith]

Has anyone Dutch ever killed anyone? I think you'll understand why I treat all Dutch people as being dangerous potential murderers.

[Flixy]

Dutch police actually has one of the highest kill rates, though still comfortably lower than in the usa (~3 per year). Several possible reasons for that, it certainly helps that due to xtc production, cocaïne smuggle (transportation hub) and marihuana of course, there is relatively much organized crime. Plus the police are allowed to use their gun as a last resort, but absent of a direct threat to life, when attempting to arrest someone suspected of serious crimes. Plus I think they are AFAIK not trained to shoot at, say, legs, but torso.

[Lewkowski]

Seeing the pictures of the Walter Scott murder, I wonder if people still think I am exagerating for looking at the police in the US as being armed and dangerous.

In every profession you have people who don't follow the rules and/or do bad things. On the whole I think the police have killed far more people with criminal records than innocent people. Exceptions will always exist for *anything* but its silly for you to worry about cops.

[Timbuk2]

On the whole I think the police have killed far more people with criminal records than innocent people.

Oh that is superb. Absolutely priceless.

Sigworthy, even.

[Loocid]

In every profession you have people who don't follow the rules and/or do bad things. On the whole I think the police have killed far more people with criminal records than innocent people. Exceptions will always exist for *anything* but its silly for you to worry about cops.

Is that an attempt to justify an ingrained culture of abuse targeted at the most deprived groups in society by those entrusted to protect us?

[Timbuk2]

So long as it grants the possibility of some folk who have criminal records getting shot and killed, absolutely.

Meet Lewk, the village idiot.

[Loocid]

By his implied logic, drunk drivers sometimes run over those with criminal records - and this is a good thing.

[EyeKhan]

So long as it grants the possibility of some folk who have criminal records getting shot and killed, absolutely.

Meet Lewk, the village idiot.

The thing that really bothers me about Lewk's comment is that if someone has a criminal record, it means they've already been caught and punished for whatever crime they committed. It's a record of past crime and punishment. How is murdering them at some later date in line with any kind of criminal justice??? Is it that anyone with a record of a past crime is fair game for murder by the police for the rest of their lives?

[Loocid]

The thing that really bothers me about Lewk's comment is that if someone has a criminal record, it means they've already been caught and punished for whatever crime they committed. It's a record of past crime and punishment. How is murdering them at some later date in line with any kind of criminal justice??? Is it that anyone with a record of a past crime is fair game for murder by the police for the rest of their lives?

Clearly people who hold such views are in an extreme minority. Is it really wise to respond to such comments (or indeed, people)?

[Wraith]

The thing that really bothers me about Lewk's comment is that if someone has a criminal record, it means they've already been caught and punished for whatever crime they committed. It's a record of past crime and punishment. How is murdering them at some later date in line with any kind of criminal justice??? Is it that anyone with a record of a past crime is fair game for murder by the police for the rest of their lives?

I'm tempted to complain that you're shoving words in his mouth, that you're interpreting what he said in a way he clearly did not intend with his statement. But given that this is "Fry 'em" Lewk, he'd probably agree with your interpretation too.

[Lewkowski]

By his implied logic, drunk drivers sometimes run over those with criminal records - and this is a good thing.

Actually based on simple statics I'm fairly certain that drunk drivers kill far more people who don't have criminal records.

In addition based on the nature of police work there is always a chance someone could get killed (heck people have been killed in crossfires between police and criminals for example). However police are a requirement for society to work drunk drivers are not so there really isn't a comparison.

[Lewkowski]

The thing that really bothers me about Lewk's comment is that if someone has a criminal record, it means they've already been caught and punished for whatever crime they committed. It's a record of past crime and punishment. How is murdering them at some later date in line with any kind of criminal justice??? Is it that anyone with a record of a past crime is fair game for murder by the police for the rest of their lives?

Not fair game but it would be a class of people far more likely to do more crime. I'm not suggesting that police should just shoot people willy nilly but I am saying that they kill far more bad guys than good guys.

[earthJoker]

Actually based on simple statics I'm fairly certain that drunk drivers kill far more people who don't have criminal records.

Only if he's driving in a white neighborhood.

[Aimless]

Not fair game but it would be a class of people far more likely to do more crime. I'm not suggesting that police should just shoot people willy nilly but I am saying that they kill far more bad guys than good guys.

The only way that factoid is relevant is if you believe that all "bad guys" are fair game.

[Loocid]

Actually based on simple statics I'm fairly certain that drunk drivers kill far more people who don't have criminal records.

In addition based on the nature of police work there is always a chance someone could get killed (heck people have been killed in crossfires between police and criminals for example). However police are a requirement for society to work drunk drivers are not so there really isn't a comparison.

Is that an attempt to justify an ingrained culture of abuse targeted at the most deprived groups in society by those entrusted to protect us?

[Timbuk2]

Hmmm.... seems white folk are fair game too.

Ten California deputies have been placed on administrative leave after they were filmed beating a suspect during his arrest.

Francis Pusok, 30, led police on a chase through San Bernardino Valley from atop a stolen horse.

The incident was was filmed by a news helicopter and shows Mr Pusok being kicked in the head and groin.

Sheriff John McMahon told reporters: "I am disturbed and troubled by what I see."

The suspensions come amid other high-profile charges of police misconduct in the US. A South Carolina police officer was charged with murder this week after video emerged of him firing into suspect Walter Scott's back as he flees.

The footage, shot by TV station KNBC-TV, shows Mr Pusok falling from the horse after being hit by a deputy's stun gun. Deputies jump onto suspect and several begin violently punching and kicking him, even after he appears to be complying.

The attack lasts about two minutes. Mr Pusok, who is white, was taken to hospital with unknown injuries after being shown on camera laying completely still.

Mr Pusok's lawyer, Jim Terrell, described what he sees in the video as "thugs beating up my client."

Deputies had been attempting to serve a search warrant in a identity-theft investigation when Mr Pusok fled by car and then later on horseback.

[RandBlade]

I think by and large the Police do a very good job in very difficult circumstances. In the USA that extends to literally putting their life on the line. One idea I heard proposed was that the Police should wear as standard cameras on themselves. I think that's an excellent idea if it can be organised right, it would end most of these controversies to have these confrontations recorded as standard - plus for the sake of the justice system the recordings could and should be admissible as evidence.

I'm far happier with the UK situation where our regular bobbies don't even carry guns. Hope that never has to change, we are really fortunate in this country not to have the dire mess the US has found itself in.

[Lewkowski]

I think by and large the Police do a very good job in very difficult circumstances. In the USA that extends to literally putting their life on the line. One idea I heard proposed was that the Police should wear as standard cameras on themselves. I think that's an excellent idea if it can be organised right, it would end most of these controversies to have these confrontations recorded as standard - plus for the sake of the justice system the recordings could and should be admissible as evidence.

I'm far happier with the UK situation where our regular bobbies don't even carry guns. Hope that never has to change, we are really fortunate in this country not to have the dire mess the US has found itself in.

I agree officer cams is a good idea and yes it absolutely should be admitted as evidence.

Timbuk - you know that whole thing could have been prevented if the guy didn't run... We really need to make resisting arrest a far more scary thing. We have criminals who drive 100+ MPH trying to get away from police. Granted sometimes we have a wonderful happy news story where they get themselves killed by ramming their car into a wall or something however in other cases we have a terrible tragedy on our hands where an innocent bystander gets hit. I'd recommend a minimum 5 year prison sentence that must always be served *consecutively* along with whatever other prison time they have.

[Aimless]

Man, if I were a black guy flagged down by one of your vicious racist dumbass cops I think my legs would be twitching too.

[Loki]

Or if you were driving a stolen car and had outstanding warrants for your arrest.