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Thread: TRUMP 2016

  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    We are discussing Islamophobia. The guns are present as an intimidation tactic by these people who are very obvious Islamophobes.
    "Armed" is the first word in the title of both videos. The issue is guns, just like liberals whined about an anti-Obama demonstration that had armed attendees in an open carry state.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    I don't see how it's the least bit off-topic in a thread about Trump. And yes, Trump did very well. But looking at the returns, it highlighted to me that the mainstream candidates are fracturing each other's support which is what giving Trump that lead over them individually.
    Thank goodness we had some more drop outs after NH. I wish Jeb would give up too already. Rubio is the best shot of uniting the Republicans and presenting the best face forward in the general election.

  3. #423
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    "Armed" is the first word in the title of both videos. The issue is guns, just like liberals whined about an anti-Obama demonstration that had armed attendees in an open carry state.
    Maybe you're much tougher than me, but I find a mob of armed men more intimidating than an unarmed mob, yes (especially if there have already been acts of violence). Generally, brandishing weapons is considered an escalation of force already. And let's be honest, if there were mobs of armed muslims protesting, there would be a massive outrage.

    BTW, these seem to be the kind of people who are opposed to any gun measures and profess to love the constitution, especially the second amendment. Maybe they should look up the bit about freedom of religion, I'm pretty sure it's in there too.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Except most of the mainstream candidates are fairly similar and one can reasonably expect most of the people voting for one to vote for another if the first wasn't in the race. It's not at all clear that Cruz' voters would go to Trump or Trump's voters would go to Cruz should one bow out so no, they are not obviously fracturing each other's support the way Jeb, Kasich, Rubio, etc. are.
    Hasn't there been a direct inverse polling relationship between the two? IE if Cruz rises then Trump falls and vice versa? Seem to be fishing from similar ponds then.

    If Cruz were to drop out tomorrow I think Trump would benefit the most and vice versa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Since his observation was a reflection of being comparatively uninformed and speaks about that state, he would naturally be right. Which is of course why you share it, you're always uninformed when it comes to structures, processes, and how things work. The workings of a parliamentary party are also confusing. . . to those who aren't familiar with them. The rest of your post is of course your usual garbage.
    I'd say most Americans don't know/understand our political structures, or how much processes vary by state. One can be quite "informed" in their home state, but have no idea how things work in other states. Caucuses vs primaries, open vs closed voting, voter registration requirements, etc. ARE a jumbled mess on a macro level. Delegates and Super-delegates control the nomination process....adding another layer of "process" that most people can't explain.

    It's not 'garbage' to suggest the US is not living up to its constitutional ideal as a democratic republic. When millions of people are rejecting 'conventional' political party wisdom, and want any candidate that can promises to turn things around.....that's an indictment of our structures and processes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Do the Americans on this forum also share RB's view that Islamophobia or the like basically doesn't exist in the US?
    No. Islamophobia is in full view during the campaign to nominate the next POTUS. Unfortunately, there are so many people who really do believe that our problems stem from non-Christian beliefs (particularly in the Republican Party) that it's become a policy/voting issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Except most of the mainstream candidates are fairly similar and one can reasonably expect most of the people voting for one to vote for another if the first wasn't in the race. It's not at all clear that Cruz' voters would go to Trump or Trump's voters would go to Cruz should one bow out so no, they are not obviously fracturing each other's support the way Jeb, Kasich, Rubio, etc. are.
    First off, define what a "mainstream candidate" means. Then explain why people are moving between (D) and (R) parties to vote for candidates that don't fit traditional/conventional party profiles.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Maybe you're much tougher than me, but I find a mob of armed men more intimidating than an unarmed mob, yes (especially if there have already been acts of violence). Generally, brandishing weapons is considered an escalation of force already. And let's be honest, if there were mobs of armed muslims protesting, there would be a massive outrage.

    BTW, these seem to be the kind of people who are opposed to any gun measures and profess to love the constitution, especially the second amendment. Maybe they should look up the bit about freedom of religion, I'm pretty sure it's in there too.
    You can protest things that are constitutionally protected... not all protests are about trying to get the government to take action.

    In addition 'right wing' protests where part of the crowd is armed tend to be incredibly safe. Almost no property damage has ever occurred when a tea party protest took place (for example). Unlike left wing protests (Occupy, BLM, WTO protests) which frequently turn violent and have police having to come out in riot gear. It has nothing to do with me being 'tough' or other nonsense but actually looking at the history of them.

    Now can there be violent protests on the right? Sure. Can there be non-violent protests on the left? Sure. But generally there will be more violence at the left wing protests.

  7. #427
    But generally there will be more violence at the left wing protests.
    Citation needed.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Citation needed.
    Seriously? Left wing protests frequently end up with smashed windows, graffiti and other violence. The same can not be said in reverse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    I'd say most Americans don't know/understand our political structures, or how much processes vary by state.
    I think that by and large they know what they need to, at least.

    Caucuses vs primaries, open vs closed voting, voter registration requirements, etc. ARE a jumbled mess on a macro level.
    They're not anywhere near a mess actually and the fact that there are differences would not and could not make them a jumped mess on a macro level anyway because there is no macro level. They aren't smaller parts of a larger whole, they're each completely independent contributors to something else. They don't HAVE to work together or align in any sort of way, no matter how much it would warm your clockwork little heart for them to be neatly arrayed like that.

    Delegates and Super-delegates control the nomination process....adding another layer of "process" that most people can't explain.
    Delegates don't (not now anyway. In bygone times when the nomination process wasn't such an exercise in public democracy they did but not now, except in conditions which are not realistically imaginable). Super-delegates conceivably could. . . but in practice do not. In practice it turns out they work to support the public democracy process and reinforce the conventional result rather than in the wild-card fashion so fondly talked of in this 24-hour infotainment culture.

    It's not 'garbage' to suggest the US is not living up to its constitutional ideal as a democratic republic. When millions of people are rejecting 'conventional' political party wisdom, and want any candidate that can promises to turn things around.....that's an indictment of our structures and processes.
    What does any of the structure and process have to do with "rejecting conventional party wisdom"? How is any of this a failure as a democratic republic? I see you're in one of your buzzword-controlled delusional states again.

    First off, define what a "mainstream candidate" means. Then explain why people are moving between (D) and (R) parties to vote for candidates that don't fit traditional/conventional party profiles.
    I could not begin to provide a definition that would satisfy you in your present condition. And I'm not seeing movement between the parties here. Within the parties some, sure, though it has been repeatedly pointed out how we actually see this pattern almost every time (if perhaps not to quite the extent shown by Trump's polling numbers though even those can be more than adequately explained by other factors like the relentless exaltation of Trump awareness being driven by the media) which would simply reflect what we already knew from the "Tea Party," that people are shifting in a more populist direction politically right now. It happens, particularly after an extended period of focus abroad.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    Telling Jeb how to win? And in Public? Thursday.
    Oh wait...this is Saturday...do you love me now?
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  11. #431
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    What...tell the truth?

    The strange thing is that after months of watching Trump say things that are racist, absurd, patently false, or all three at once, the Republican Party establishment decided to stomp on him for saying things that are basically true.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  13. #433
    So, is Cruz an eligible candidate? Should he be? What would/should Cruz believe about his own eligibility?

    http://www.vox.com/2016/2/18/11058038/ted-cruz-court
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  14. #434
    Of course he's eligible. He was born a citizen and never naturalised.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  15. #435
    When this question initially came up, the conventional wisdom among constitutional lawyers was that it was a non-issue: Cruz was obviously eligible. But as the debate has heated up among candidates (with Donald Trump, in particular, fanning the flames), it's also begun to heat up among constitutional law scholars.

    The issue is actually twofold: whether Ted Cruz should be considered a natural-born citizen, and whether Cruz's own preferred school of constitutional interpretation would see it that way.
    The problem: the meaning of "natural-born citizen"

    Here is what the Constitution says about who can be president:

    No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

    The problem is the Constitution doesn't define "natural born Citizen." Neither does any current law. And no one has ever brought a court case to decisively settle the question as a matter of US law.

    There are three ways someone can be a US citizen. He can be born in the US (regardless of who his parents are). He can be born outside the US to at least one US citizen parent, as long as certain criteria are met (those criteria are set by federal law and have been changed over time). Or he can immigrate here and then successfully apply for citizenship, a process called naturalization.

    Everyone agrees that the first category of people are natural-born citizens. Everyone agrees that the third category of people are not natural-born citizens (regardless of how unfair it might be that immigrants can't be president). But Ted Cruz is in the middle category, and this is where the meaning of "natural born" starts to get fuzzy.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  16. #436
    It's not fuzzy, it's just limited people being idiots.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #437
    Has this matter already been settled, legally? Yes or no?

    Would eligibility be consistent with Cruz's own approach to the constitution? Yes or no?
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  18. #438

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Has this matter already been settled, legally? Yes or no?

    Would eligibility be consistent with Cruz's own approach to the constitution? Yes or no?
    Yes, it has been settled. Just because there isn't an explicit SCOTUS ruiling doesn't mean the legal status of the question is actually unsettled. There are lots of things which haven't been explicitly addressed by the Supreme Court which are nonetheless not validly disputed.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Has this matter already been settled, legally? Yes or no?

    Would eligibility be consistent with Cruz's own approach to the constitution? Yes or no?
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Yes, it has been settled.
    natural born Citizen has not been legally defined. It's a legislative task that must ultimately be upheld by SCOTUS. Three takes on Naturalization:
    1. Born within our boundaries -- no paperwork required (Natural Born Citizen)
    2. Born outside our boundaries to a US citizen -- paperwork must be filed ( ? )
    3. Born outside our boundaries to non US citizen -- paperwork must be filed (NOT a Natural Born Citizen)

    Do you see the difference between 2 and 3?

    That's why it's a legislative issue.
    Last edited by Being; 02-20-2016 at 05:44 AM.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  21. #441
    Alternatively
    1 Born inside borders, a citizen from birth.
    2 Born outside borders to US citizens parent (s), a citizen from birth.
    3 Born outside borders to non citizen parents, not a citizen from birth, need to undergo naturalisation process.

    See the difference? Paperwork must always be filed for everything. Surely even if born inside borders paperwork for a birth certificate needs filing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #442
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    Interesting that Cruz doesn't appear to be able to carry the S.C. Bible Belt.

    And Bush is out.
    Last edited by Hazir; 02-21-2016 at 12:41 AM.
    Congratulations America

  23. #443
    Thank goodness Bush is out. Ugh Trump is no one's 2nd choice... he's not going to get over 40% even if there were just two guys left. Cruz and Rubio need to cut a deal before this shit goes on too long.

  24. #444
    Trump has got 60/60 delegates tonight I believe in SC. He achieved a victory in NH on a scale I didn't believe he could. He may actually do this.

    As for second choices, if Trump is poling approximately 40% in places like Florida with an ~20% lead then Bush's 4% is going to make little difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Trump has got 60/60 delegates tonight I believe in SC. He achieved a victory in NH on a scale I didn't believe he could. He may actually do this.

    As for second choices, if Trump is poling approximately 40% in places like Florida with an ~20% lead then Bush's 4% is going to make little difference.
    Well it does help. The real toss up is between Rubio and Cruz. Together they have more than Trump. Go Pres/VP make a deal but at all costs beat Trump.

  26. #446
    I don't really find Cruz any more palatable a candidate than Trump.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  27. #447
    Trump seeks better than Cruz to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  28. #448
    What are you people smoking? Cruz is quite conservative yes but he isn't unhinged like Donald. He doesn't create enemies lists and doesn't think Russia is our BFF. It is difficult to say what Trump's true positions are so I suppose you might be thinking you only have a 50/50 shot of him starting a trade war with China and other moronic things but I for one would rather have stability than a guessing game of what Trump will do next.

    I'd prefer Marco over either of them but ultimately anyone but Trump.

  29. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    What are you people smoking? Cruz is quite conservative yes but he isn't unhinged like Donald. He doesn't create enemies lists and doesn't think Russia is our BFF. It is difficult to say what Trump's true positions are so I suppose you might be thinking you only have a 50/50 shot of him starting a trade war with China and other moronic things but I for one would rather have stability than a guessing game of what Trump will do next.

    I'd prefer Marco over either of them but ultimately anyone but Trump.
    Then you must be pleased with Bush getting out.

    Strangely enough I have this feeling that some day we'll see the system is Trump's madness.
    Congratulations America

  30. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    What are you people smoking? Cruz is quite conservative yes but he isn't unhinged like Donald. He doesn't create enemies lists and doesn't think Russia is our BFF. It is difficult to say what Trump's true positions are so I suppose you might be thinking you only have a 50/50 shot of him starting a trade war with China and other moronic things but I for one would rather have stability than a guessing game of what Trump will do next.

    I'd prefer Marco over either of them but ultimately anyone but Trump.
    Trump may be only pretending to be nuts. Cruz definitely is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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