Page 31 of 171 FirstFirst ... 2129303132334181131 ... LastLast
Results 901 to 930 of 5128

Thread: TRUMP 2016

  1. #901
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Anti-establishment, even to the point of supporting vicious racists, is on the rise all over the West. I could suggest lots of half-measures that could make a dent on the problem, but I have no idea how we got to this point.
    But aren't you part of academia that's supposed to know these things?

  2. #902
    You do know how academia works, right? It's called specialization. Very narrow specialization. This is very, very far from my area. I'm sure there are comparativists who do work in this area.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  3. #903
    Ha, no Political Scientist or International Relations "expert" wants to say how/why Trump became the presumptive (R) nominee. How convenient.

  4. #904
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Anti-establishment, even to the point of supporting vicious racists, is on the rise all over the West. I could suggest lots of half-measures that could make a dent on the problem, but I have no idea how we got to this point.
    Long-lingering economic slack after a period of pronounced prosperity.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  5. #905
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Ha, no Political Scientist or International Relations "expert" wants to say how/why Trump became the presumptive (R) nominee. How convenient.
    You understand that systems are not the same as specific samples, right?
    Wait, you're GGT. Of course you don't. You look at a dead patient in a hospital which implemented a rigorous checklist regime and demand to know why it was still possible for someone to die if the hospital used checklists.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  6. #906
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Long-lingering economic slack after a period of pronounced prosperity.
    The problem there is that the people supporting Trump et al. are actually relatively well off. Last I checked, the average income of Trump supporters was $70k. The main predictors for supporting Trump are authoritarian personalities and racism/xenophobia (which presumably preexisted Trump). Most of his supporters don't have a college education, but have fairly solid salaries for those without those degrees. His supporters are no more likely than Hillary's to have suffered economically in the last decade.

    I would also buy the economic explanation more if we weren't seeing anti-establishment types being as successful in countries with minor economic problems (Britain, US, France) as we are in countries that experienced a complete economic collapse (Greece, Spain).

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Ha, no Political Scientist or International Relations "expert" wants to say how/why Trump became the presumptive (R) nominee. How convenient.
    Yeah, people stick to areas they're knowledgeable about and don't write half-assed papers on topics outside of their specialties. How shameful.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  7. #907
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    The problem there is that the people supporting Trump et al. are actually relatively well off. Last I checked, the average income of Trump supporters was $70k. The main predictors for supporting Trump are authoritarian personalities and racism/xenophobia (which presumably preexisted Trump).
    Doesn't have to be felt personally, so long as it is visible to them in some way. Classic example of how that can work being the reaction to how Birmingham responded to that civil rights march in 1963. A more recent *and perhaps directly contributing) example would be the Occupy movement
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  8. #908
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    You understand that systems are not the same as specific samples, right?
    Wait, you're GGT. Of course you don't. You look at a dead patient in a hospital which implemented a rigorous checklist regime and demand to know why it was still possible for someone to die if the hospital used checklists.
    I've actually been a nursing administrator, in a new hospital, that didn't have procedures in place for the newly deceased. That was something the parent hospital hadn't planned for....and we were putting dead bodies in a refrigerated container (in the parking lot) until coordination plans could be made with the county coroner and/or a funeral parlor.

    So don't lecture me about dead people and political processes from your hypothetical sofa.

  9. #909
    The problem is that it's visible to everyone, and yet only specific people are using that experience to support racist anti-establishment types. The south, for instance, hasn't been doing too poorly recently, and yet support for Trump here is pretty damn high. It's also unclear why uneducated middle aged white men would take that experience to heart more than minorities, women, or the youth. It doesn't help that a lot of factors associated with support for Trump et al. are strongly correlated with each other, so who knows what causes what.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  10. #910
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    I've actually been a nursing administrator, in a new hospital, that didn't have procedures in place for the newly deceased. That was something the parent hospital hadn't planned for....and we were putting dead bodies in a refrigerated container (in the parking lot) until coordination plans could be made with the county coroner and/or a funeral parlor.

    So don't lecture me about dead people and political processes from your hypothetical sofa.
    I know you've been a nursing administrator, it's why I chose the example I did (plus I think I recall you making just that sort of comment to Minx once, when she was talking about something similar)

    But I will GLADLY refrain from lecturing you about things like that from my hypothetical sofa if you'd extend the rest of us a similar courtesy. That would probably require you to just stop posting altogether though, so I guess we're both out of luck.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  11. #911
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    I know you've been a nursing administrator, it's why I chose the example I did (plus I think I recall you making just that sort of comment to Minx once, when she was talking about something similar)

    But I will GLADLY refrain from lecturing you about things like that from my hypothetical sofa if you'd extend the rest of us a similar courtesy. That would probably require you to just stop posting altogether though, so I guess we're both out of luck.
    Well aren't you the proverbial passive/aggressive fuck after all.

  12. #912
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Well aren't you the proverbial passive/aggressive fuck after all.
    I guess we'll have to add "passive-aggressive" to the list of things you don't comprehend. There's nothing indirect (or beating around the bush) about this or any of our other confrontations.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  13. #913
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    But the "problem" isn't contained to the US, or its voters. Just look at Brexit.....

    Seems to me there's a new, broad, and common mistrust of "the establishment" (aka as the status quo) that's disrupting things everywhere. I don't know how to put the pieces together from an academic level, but it's safe to say that most people (voters) don't trust where the academics/elites have led us so far.

    What's the solution, Professor Loki?
    Armchair analysis here but I think the internet has made it so much more painfully obvious how pathetically mismanaged and corrupt government actually is. In the last 20 years the traditional outlet for news and information has had their biases made plain. People don't trust government, people don't trust media and people don't trust academia. Lack of trust creates anti-establishment views. Trump would likely not have been as successful if the Republicans had stood their ground. With majorities in the House and Senate they had full control to stop the funding of Obama care. Would it have led to a government shutdown and a scary high stakes game of chicken? Yes it would, but they could have done it. IF they had done so than both Cruz and Trump would not have been as successful.

    That being said this isn't the only time we've had anti-establishment movements. Everyone likes to think their generation is unique or more unique than other times. Civil War, WW2, American Revolution were all far more tumultuous times. This current era actually has far less changes to society than most, and those that are occurring are almost fully driven by technology.

  14. #914
    You're ignoring the part where people have gone from somewhat biased sources to insanely biased ones (Breitbart, redstate, Limbaugh, Fox News, MSNBC). So the quality of information available to most partisans is piss-poor. But you might be partly right in that access to this terrible information might have created a truly warped idea of what the US government is like in the eyes of many people.

    Incidentally, Democrats had 57 Senate seats in 2009, and 257 House ones. Once the plan was in action, Obama benefited from the status quo.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  15. #915
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You're ignoring the part where people have gone from somewhat biased sources to insanely biased ones (Breitbart, redstate, Limbaugh, Fox News, MSNBC). So the quality of information available to most partisans is piss-poor. But you might be partly right in that access to this terrible information might have created a truly warped idea of what the US government is like in the eyes of many people.

    Incidentally, Democrats had 57 Senate seats in 2009, and 257 House ones. Once the plan was in action, Obama benefited from the status quo.
    What they've gone is from biased news that masqueraded itself as unbiased news to biased news that doesn't pretend to be unbiased (for the most part). As much as Fox News claims Fair and Balanced (and in fairness they often try to get liberals onto the show) no one actually thinks O'reilly , Hannity etc aren't obviously conservative.

  16. #916
    Except most people today only watch those hyper-biased sources and assuming they're hearing the Gospel, particularly when it comes to attacks against the other side. 2/5 of Republicans believing that Obama is a Muslim didn't arise in a vacuum.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  17. #917
    Projected cost of Trump: 10 million jobs and $1.5 trillion GDP per year.

    https://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/d...c-Policies.pdf
    Hope is the denial of reality

  18. #918
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Except most people today only watch those hyper-biased sources and assuming they're hearing the Gospel, particularly when it comes to attacks against the other side. 2/5 of Republicans believing that Obama is a Muslim didn't arise in a vacuum.
    I really wonder about that sometimes, I don't know a single person IRL that believes he's a Muslim.

  19. #919
    And I don't know a single person in Georgia who supports Trump, and yet he got 50% of the Republican vote.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  20. #920
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    And I don't know a single person in Georgia who supports Trump, and yet he got 50% of the Republican vote.
    Do you know people in Georgia? I talk with a variety of folks about politics ranging from people who like Trump, people who like Sanders, people who like Cruz (no surprise this is home state) and people who don't vote. None of them have ever stated they think Obama is a secret Muslim. I sometimes think partisan individuals will always pick the answer that makes their political opponent look bad. IE the 'Obama is a Muslim' would probably get similar results from the same people if they instead asked "Is Obama a criminal?" "Was Obama born out of this country?" "Was Obama against killing Osama Bin Laden?" (The irony should be clear here.) It doesn't matter what the question is and it doesn't matter the response - people can lie to pollsters.

  21. #921
    Well, I live in Georgia, so I would think so. But just like you, my list of acquaintances isn't randomly distributed among the population. The College Republicans were split between Paul, Cruz, and Rubio.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  22. #922
    It would be funny to see whether Republicans think calling someone a Muslim is as bad as calling them a criminal.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  23. #923
    if only ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  24. #924
    How it was done:

    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  25. #925
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,435
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  26. #926
    For anyone worrying about a Trump victory: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...eems-heres-why.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  27. #927
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    For anyone worrying about a Trump victory: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...eems-heres-why.
    Cruz was right.

  28. #928
    Scotland gives a warm welcome ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  29. #929
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,435
    I've heard that Scottish people only insult those they like
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  30. #930
    A relatively new body of social science research portrays a group of “authoritarians” who are dispersed across demographics but desire conformity, order and social norms. These can be “activated,” as the scholars describe it, when they feel threatened by social change, and then will seek harsh, punitive policies that target outsiders and restore the status quo.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/27/wo...democracy.html

    Seems spot on, in both the US and UK.
    Hope is the denial of reality

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •