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Thread: TRUMP 2016

  1. #2101
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    People who don't agree with you are not clueless. Find me an equivalently racist "problems with blackness" seminar and we can talk again.
    I say you were clueless in that discussion because you were, about facts. In this discussion you're adjusting standards in bizarre ways. Especially bizarre because you don't seem to know the first thing about the seminar nor understand what police and universities do.

    Previously in this discussion you showed yourself to be clueless about the distinction between teaching disagreeable things and teaching religion. You also seem to be clueless about the difference between a boss firing an unfit employee and a legislator threatening to defund a university. I'm sorry RB but I don't think you can salvage your crappy case here. Perhaps someone else can try to do it for you.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  2. #2102
    The issue was not whether disagreeable things or religion is taught, the issue is whether legislatures get involved in education. Whether it is for religion or disagreeable things is entirely moot to the discussion at hand. The courts struck down the legislatures actions because they were for religion (which is forbidden by the first amendment). Had it not been for the first amendment then the legislatures actions could have stood. Either way though the legislatures were getting involved where they wanted to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #2103
    It's interesting that you dismiss the legal aspects of the State's relationship with free speech as being irrelevant to a discussion about the state's relationship with free speech.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  4. #2104
    No, no, no, no, no. You have that entirely wrong. They are irrelevant to the claim that the legislature does not get involved in education.

    The legislature clearly gets involved in education. At times the Court rules such involvement unconstitutional due to the First Amendment. At other times where the First Amendment doesn't apply then the involvement stands.

    The differential between school and college level education is a far more relevant point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #2105
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    That is not an equivalent example. A more equivalent example would be for the government to withdraw funding from every police department in the US for engaging in racist practices. This is instead an example of a single individual showing himself to be singularly unfit by doing things that clearly undermine the public's trust in both him and his employer. That said, there is one similarity. The legislature does not generally go around threatening to defund police departments unless they fire specific people. They can exert other forms of pressure but in the end it's left to the discretion of those who're directly in charge of the police's employment-related decisions.
    You have an interesting definition of equivalent, as I'm missing where the legislator in question threatened to remove funding from all universities. I'm also uncertain as to why a public university providing racist courses doesn't also undermine the public's trust in both the professor teaching the course and the university system receiving tax dollars from public coffers that administered it.

  6. #2106
    The course is elective, attending the university is optional, the consequences of reduced trust are minor. Being policed is not optional and the consequences of undermining trust in the police are very great. In this case it would raise doubts about his every interaction with a black citizen. In a university setting that would jeopardize the integrity of grades. In the context of law enforcement we're talking about jeopardizing the integrity of the justice system. The teacher's ability to do his job isn't impaired to any significant extent but a police force that the public doesn't trust has a harder time doing a good job.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  7. #2107
    What you seem to be suggesting is that lecturers are less important than officers and by proxy education is less important than the judicial system. Not sure I agree with either premise.

    If the teacher is racist and teaching a racist course (being openly racist on the job) then that teacher is every bit as impaired as a racist officer being openly racist in his job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #2108
    You guys should talk amongst yourselves about your views on which service is more vital for a government to fund: University education or law enforcement.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  9. #2109
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    You guys should talk amongst yourselves about your views on which service is more vital for a government to fund: University education or law enforcement.
    I'm just hoping for another apologetic from you defending government sponsored institutional racism.

  10. #2110
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    What you seem to be suggesting is that lecturers are less important than officers and by proxy education is less important than the judicial system. Not sure I agree with either premise.

    If the teacher is racist and teaching a racist course (being openly racist on the job) then that teacher is every bit as impaired as a racist officer being openly racist in his job.
    Except you have no evidence of the teacher being racist, while there's quite clear evidence of the cop being racist.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  11. #2111
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    I'm just hoping for another apologetic from you defending government sponsored institutional racism.
    Sure, a course on institutional racism is now government sponsored institutional racism. Every argument you've advanced in this thread has been bad. Don't you think it's about time you bring something more persuasive to the table?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  12. #2112
    Your refusal to accept this racist course as racism is why you fail to understand why this is bad. First step is to admit you have a problem, from there the rest will follow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  13. #2113
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Except you have no evidence of the teacher being racist, while there's quite clear evidence of the cop being racist.
    Except you have said it doesn't matter. The professor could be teaching, "a course dedicated to the mistreatment and abuse of white protestants by the Jewish cabal led government in association with our lizard people overlords, lamenting the ongoing demonization and misrepresentation of the KKK by colored folk and race traitors, designed to promote white nationalism and the alt right," and that would be fine by you. Because a government choosing not to fund that would be censorship, apparently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless
    Sure, a course on institutional racism is now government sponsored institutional racism. Every argument you've advanced in this thread has been bad. Don't you think it's about time you bring something more persuasive to the table?
    This would almost be funny if it was not so sad.

  14. #2114
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    Except you have said it doesn't matter. The professor could be teaching, "a course dedicated to the mistreatment and abuse of white protestants by the Jewish cabal led government in association with our lizard people overlords, lamenting the ongoing demonization and misrepresentation of the KKK by colored folk and race traitors, designed to promote white nationalism and the alt right," and that would be fine by you. Because a government choosing not to fund that would be censorship, apparently.
    If the guy managed to get that course approved by the curriculum committee...which would never happen. You still don't seem to understand the difference between discussing controversial ideas in the classroom and making racist statements.

    A professor who made racist statements in his private life would face the same consequences as the cop. And note that this is completely irrelevant as to whether the government should defund an entire institution because of said racist statements.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  15. #2115
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    If the guy managed to get that course approved by the curriculum committee...which would never happen.
    I agree. It probably wouldn't happen, but it's not because there aren't racist professors or curriculum. It's just not the right kind of racism.

    You still don't seem to understand the difference between discussing controversial ideas in the classroom and making racist statements.

    A professor who made racist statements in his private life would face the same consequences as the cop. And note that this is completely irrelevant as to whether the government should defund an entire institution because of said racist statements.
    Oh, absolutely they would.

    For the record, I agree the government shouldn't defund an entire institution because of racist statements or courses. There are other, better reasons to not use government funding in higher education. It wouldn't be censorship however if it did.

  16. #2116
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    There are other, better reasons to not use government funding in higher education.
    Which probably are the usual "free market fixeth all" brainfarts.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  17. #2117
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Your refusal to accept this racist course as racism is why you fail to understand why this is bad. First step is to admit you have a problem, from there the rest will follow.
    *shrug* Given that you can't acknowledge blatant racism in US law enforcement I don't think you have a leg to stand on.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  18. #2118
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The issue was not whether disagreeable things or religion is taught, the issue is whether legislatures get involved in education. Whether it is for religion or disagreeable things is entirely moot to the discussion at hand. The courts struck down the legislatures actions because they were for religion (which is forbidden by the first amendment). Had it not been for the first amendment then the legislatures actions could have stood. Either way though the legislatures were getting involved where they wanted to do so.
    Loki was specifically talking about interference with college curricula and you failed to show legitimate examples of legislatures exerting that level of influence on college curricula. It does not seem to be common or customary or, when it comes to things that run afoul of the establishment clause, legal.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  19. #2119
    Why is all this good debate buried in the TRUMP thread?

    I can't believe you guys are still going on about what's basically a purposefully 'titillating' class name that some self-avowed anti-Liberal Arts legislators are using for political points! ugh

  20. #2120
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    *shrug* Given that you can't acknowledge blatant racism in US law enforcement I don't think you have a leg to stand on.
    I've said that those who are blatantly racist in US law enforcement should be fired and prosecuted if the evidence shows it to be appropriate. I'm just not willing to blanket condemn all "pigs" as racist.

    That's not good enough for you. That's the difference, we're speaking about individuals, you want to castigate everyone for the sins of a few.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #2121
    Fun discussion I came across. If Obama is Muslim, why isn't Trump a Russian Spy?


    To the best of my knowledge he's never denied that he's been brainwashed by agents at the Kremlin in order to undermine western power structures and bring about the balkanization of NATO, and you'd think that would be something he'd have said on day one.

    Why doesn't Trump show his tax returns? There's something on those tax returns that Trump doesn't like. He's spent millions of dollars trying to get away from this issue. Millions of dollars in legal fees trying to get away from this issue. And I'll tell you what, I brought it up, just routinely, and all of a sudden a lot facts are emerging and I'm starting to wonder myself whether or not Trump is loyal to this country.

    Trump doesn't have tax returns, or if he does, there's something on those returns that is very bad for him. Now, somebody told me -- and I have no idea if this is bad for Trump or not, but perhaps it would be -- that where it says 'nationality,' it might have 'Russian.' And if you're a Russian, you don't change your nationality, by the way. Donald Trump's grandmother in Moscow said, 'Oh, no, Don was born in Moscow and I was there and I witnessed the birth.' She's on tape. I think that tape's going to be produced fairly soon. Somebody is coming out with a book in two weeks, it will be very interesting.

    An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @realDonaldTrump's birth certificate is a fraud. Was it a birth certificate? You tell me. Some people say that was not his birth certificate. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. I'm saying I don't know. Nobody knows. How amazing, the State Health Director who verified copies of Trump's 'birth certificate' died in plane crash today. All others lived.

    Who knows about Trump? ... Who knows, who knows? Who cares right now?... I have my own theory on Trump. Someday I will write a book, I will do another book, and it will do very successfully.

    These are all just quotes from Donald Trump with the words "birth certificate" replaced with "tax returns," "Kenya" replaced with "Russia," and so on.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  22. #2122
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    ... you want to castigate everyone for the sins of a few.
    That's how we make a few fewer.
    .

  23. #2123
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...igation-senate

    “I would never comment on investigations – whether we have one or not – in an open forum like this, so I really can’t answer one way or another,” said Comey, at a hearing into the US intelligence agencies’ conclusion that Russia intervened in the election to benefit Trump.

    Comey’s reticence stunned several senators who pointed to his repeated public discussions of FBI inquiries into Clinton during the campaign.

    [...]

    Asked by the Oregon Democrat Ron Wyden if he would provide an unclassified answer about any FBI inquiry into Trump-Russia connections before Trump’s inauguration on 20 January, Comey said: “I will answer any question you ask but the answer will likely be the same as I just gave you. I can’t talk about it.”

    [...]

    Angus King, a Maine independent, told Comey: “The irony of your making that statement here – I cannot avoid.”

    Responding to King, Comey suggested “sometimes we think differently about [discussing] closed investigations”.
    This is some next-level trolling.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  24. #2124
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/11/news...ump-conflicts/

    Yeah, handing everything over to your own family doesn't really address conflicts of interest.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  25. #2125
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/11/news...ump-conflicts/

    Yeah, handing everything over to your own family doesn't really address conflicts of interest.
    It doesn't, but that's always been the problem with our current system when the politician is someone who has a genuine business empire. For most politicians it's just money management and it works out ok (or we can at least pretend it can) but there simply isn't a way to temporarily divest someone of these kinds of assets and an interest in their performance. Selling the company is a process that would realistically take a while and doesn't begin to be fair to Trump or the other asset holders, and this isn't something a "blind trust" can begin to cover. Which is a reason we maybe shouldn't elect that kind of person, but the American public did it anyway.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  26. #2126
    Precisely the American people made this bed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #2127
    Too bad for Trump. A law that is difficult to follow doesn't stop being a law. Trump knew what he was getting into. We don't elect dictators. Being president doesn't make you exempt from the Constitution.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  28. #2128
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Too bad for Trump. A law that is difficult to follow doesn't stop being a law. Trump knew what he was getting into. We don't elect dictators. Being president doesn't make you exempt from the Constitution.
    I'm not actually sure there's any law involved here, Loki. It's more of an ethics issue - and a big one - but from a law perspective I think he's in the clear.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  29. #2129
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    I'm not actually sure there's any law involved here, Loki. It's more of an ethics issue - and a big one - but from a law perspective I think he's in the clear.
    http://fortune.com/2017/01/09/trump-emoluments/
    Hope is the denial of reality

  30. #2130
    I'm not sure legally a payment for services rendered to a business is a gift to an individual.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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