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Thread: Spanish Video Piracy Dooms Video Business

  1. #1

    Default Spanish Video Piracy Dooms Video Business

    Where's that argument again that piracy is basically harmless to profits?

    In Spain, Internet piracy is part of the culture

    Illegal downloading of movies and TV shows is so prevalent that studios may give up selling DVDs in the country.

    By Ben Fritz

    March 30, 2010

    Picasso and bullfighting are cultural touchstones in Spain. Now add Internet piracy.

    The unauthorized downloading and streaming of movies and television shows from the Web is a growing problem for the entertainment industry around the world. In a few key countries such as Spain, however, it has become an epidemic that is forcing movie studios to consider no longer selling DVDs in the country.

    A cavalier attitude toward piracy has made it mainstream behavior in Spain.

    "Almost everybody I know downloads movies," said Mercedes Carrasco, 45, a student from Caceres who downloads about two movies each week.

    "I don't think downloading movies for private use harms anybody," said Juan, a 41-year-old engineer from Madrid who declined to provide his last name. He said he downloads five or six movies a month, including recently all six "Star Wars" movies. "It's like exchanging a book with friends."

    It's no surprise why average Spaniards think it's not a big deal: Unlike in the U.S., France and, under proposed legislation, Britain, piracy isn't against the law in Spain unless it's done for profit. The country's minister of culture, a former filmmaker who is backing a bill that would make it easier to shut off access to websites that facilitate piracy, blames the problem on deep-rooted cultural attitudes.

    "Traditionally in Mediterranean countries, it's hard for people to understand that immaterial things can be worth as much as material things," said Angeles Gonzalez-Sinde.


    Piracy is reshaping the movie business in Spain, much as it has done to the music business around the world. In 2003, there were 12,000 video stores in the country. By the end of 2008, there were 3,000.

    Legitimate digital distribution isn't filling the gap. Apple Inc.'s iTunes, the world's biggest digital-media store, doesn't sell movies or television shows in Spain, as it does in Britain, France and Germany.

    Between 2006 and 2008, illegal movie downloads in Spain went from 132 million a year to 350 million, according to research firm Media-Control GfK, at the same time that the number of DVDs sold or rented fell by 30%. Some studios now see Spain as a lost market.

    "People are downloading movies in such large quantities that Spain is on the brink of no longer being a viable home entertainment market for us," said Michael Lynton, chairman of Sony Pictures Entertainment.

    If this were an isolated example, Hollywood could handle the blow. But Spain is on the verge of becoming the second country in which piracy has ravaged what was once a robust business. In 2008, the last of the major studios shut down their operations in South Korea for the same reason.

    With accelerating broadband speeds making downloads simpler -- and legal authorities struggling to keep up -- many fear that Spain is becoming the second domino in a chain that could threaten Hollywood's economic underpinnings.

    "I worry about other countries a lot," Lynton acknowledged. "Including the U.S."

    Spanish box-office receipts were up slightly in 2009, reflecting a worldwide trend of people going to movie theaters amid the recession as a low-cost social experience. But about half the profit for a typical motion picture comes from DVD sales and rentals.

    "The same box-office dollar generates anywhere from three to 10 times as much home-video spending in Germany or the U.K. as in Spain," said Joe Drake, motion picture group president for Lions Gate Entertainment. "Piracy is a massive piece of that difference."

    The downturn in the global DVD business, which traditionally has been a major source of revenue for the studios, has been cited as a major cause of thousands of layoffs roiling Hollywood over the last year as the studios make fewer films and tighten production budgets.

    For anyone with high-speed Internet access, peer-to-peer networks make it simple to download movies in a few hours. At the same time, the growth of streaming-video sites -- many operated outside the law in Third World countries -- can cut that time down to seconds.

    The problem may be exacerbated by Spain's telecom companies, said Gonzalez-Sinde, the culture minister. She said that they have subtly encouraged the notion that paying for high-speed Internet access brings a cornucopia of movies free, an idea that appears to resonate with the public.

    "People pay 30 to 40 euros per month [for Internet service] to download up to 100 movies per month," said Madrid resident Andres Gesteira, 28. "It's not just to check e-mail."

    Movie studios have responded by demanding stricter enforcement. Their new ideal is a "three strikes" law adopted in France last year that potentially cuts off Internet access for those caught pirating movies or music three times. A similar law is being debated in the British Parliament.

    Recently, Spain's Cabinet approved a bill that lets judges quickly ban access to websites that offer pirated media. The measure is awaiting approval by the parliament.

    "I'm confident it will help to change patterns, although anything with the word 'Internet' in it is controversial in Spain," Gonzalez-Sinde said.

    Although the proposed law would not punish average citizens as does the one in France, it has created an outcry, with critics contending that it does not allow for a fair hearing before a site is cut off.

    Opponents have rallied around an unpopular tax on blank DVDs and CDs that's meant to cover the cost of making copies of movies and music for friends.

    "Many people think that the tax makes it more legitimate to download copyrighted material," said David Gomez, an Internet liberties activist in Spain.

    When illegal Internet downloading and streaming become so entrenched in a country that it's a societal habit, however, it's unlikely that any policy change can quickly put it to a halt. Piracy in Spain, by this view, may be more akin to a disease, one that Hollywood must hope to contain before it spreads.

    "Generally speaking, piracy is a cultural issue, and stopping it may be akin to how long it took drinking and driving to become socially unacceptable," said Bob Pisano, interim chief executive of the Motion Picture Assn. of America, who has been to Spain four times in the last year and a half to address the issue.

    "We need to get a handle on it if we don't want to end up like the music industry, where their business model didn't keep pace with the realities of the new marketplace."

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,2736328.story

  2. #2
    Hmm... now I feel bad anout downloading 1600 songs...

  3. #3
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Where's that argument again that piracy is basically harmless to profits?
    I'll bite. For starters, they apparently don't have legal alternatives for digital movies:
    Apple Inc.'s iTunes, the world's biggest digital-media store, doesn't sell movies or television shows in Spain, as it does in Britain, France and Germany.

    And it does not cinema ticket sales are up, and DVD sales are down 30%. Together, that's not all to bad, add that they got extra income from the tax on blank discs. The article reads more like the big movie bosses complaining about downloading as usual.

    That said, of course it harms the sales profits. But the numbers are less bad than presented here, too: A lot of movies are now downloaded that otherwise wouldn't be watched. Problem is that after you download it you're not going to buy the DVD later.

    With games and music, the people who download it actually spend more on it too (people tend to download games to try that they otherwise wouldn't buy at all, and buy it later too, and people who download most music tend to visit most concerts, and still buy records and merchandise too.

    I'll look up an article that I read a while back that researched it and found that, at least in music, the industry profited from it, but more the artists themselves than the record labels.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  4. #4
    It's not really a problem for Spain. Spain doesn't need Hollywood to make DVDs for the Spanish market. There are plenty of US movies translated to Spanish (probably all of the studios that can afford it do it) ..

  5. #5

    Where's that argument again that piracy is basically harmless to profits?
    Only a complete twit would seriously present this argument honestly. It is mostly free loading scum who make this kind of argument as they continue to steal without a care in the world.

  6. #6
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    The main reason why this kind of thing happens is that the studio's still don't understand that the internet is not going to go away. They could easily turn this trend around by stopping with their silly system of distribution zones. Then people who are willing to pay for their products wouldn't be punished by having to wait months before they can buy a film of episode of a TV-series. I'd quite happily dole out the money to download episodes of my favorite TV-series. But 'they' won't let me. I don't feel guilty in the least about downloading them for free in stead. Movies I don't watch on TV anyway, movies I see in the cinema.
    Congratulations America

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Only a complete twit would seriously present this argument honestly. It is mostly free loading scum who make this kind of argument as they continue to steal without a care in the world.
    Mostly, but not all. My favorite publishing house launched a free online library of titles, because the publisher expected that it would spur sales, of those books actually in the library and of other titles by authors of those freely accessible books. He was right on both counts. He started including free cds with new hardcover releases, containing multiple other titles in several formats and that also spurred sales. Movies might be different but it has been demonstrated, in both physical print and in electronic print, that free access to books does not hurt the profits of quality publishing.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  8. #8
    I find it funny, that the first line Dread highlighted, the line the entire article it based around, was settled in court less than 2 weeks ago. Kneejerk the doom is near reaction?
    http://translate.google.com/translat...268472778.html

    Also like how it doesn't compare the download figures of Spain to other countries.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    I'll bite. For starters, they apparently don't have legal alternatives for digital movies:

    [/B]And it does not cinema ticket sales are up, and DVD sales are down 30%. Together, that's not all to bad, add that they got extra income from the tax on blank discs. The article reads more like the big movie bosses complaining about downloading as usual.

    That said, of course it harms the sales profits. But the numbers are less bad than presented here, too: A lot of movies are now downloaded that otherwise wouldn't be watched. Problem is that after you download it you're not going to buy the DVD later.

    With games and music, the people who download it actually spend more on it too (people tend to download games to try that they otherwise wouldn't buy at all, and buy it later too, and people who download most music tend to visit most concerts, and still buy records and merchandise too.

    I'll look up an article that I read a while back that researched it and found that, at least in music, the industry profited from it, but more the artists themselves than the record labels.
    I suspect the reason there is no digital viewing services in Spain is because of the rampant piracy -- no company wants to compete on offering a legal digital copy when there is no legal support against people who pirate movies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    The main reason why this kind of thing happens is that the studio's still don't understand that the internet is not going to go away. They could easily turn this trend around by stopping with their silly system of distribution zones. Then people who are willing to pay for their products wouldn't be punished by having to wait months before they can buy a film of episode of a TV-series. I'd quite happily dole out the money to download episodes of my favorite TV-series. But 'they' won't let me. I don't feel guilty in the least about downloading them for free in stead. Movies I don't watch on TV anyway, movies I see in the cinema.
    I think you're right on this -- the distribution system is mucking things up for them and is simply outdated. Though if that system disappeared overnight, do you think people in places like Spain would start paying for things like digital downloads?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    I find it funny, that the first line Dread highlighted, the line the entire article it based around, was settled in court less than 2 weeks ago. Kneejerk the doom is near reaction?
    http://translate.google.com/translat...268472778.html

    Also like how it doesn't compare the download figures of Spain to other countries.
    Good point about not comparing numbers to other countries.

    But what issue was settled? The translation you sent me suggests that the issue is still there -- P2P networks themselves are still legal (all good and well), but media piracy is not really illegal.

  10. #10
    Some fragments from articles on that matter. It is seen by spanish people as an attempt of American companies to destroy spanish cultural industry as it favors American companies and products.

    Spanish Presidency leading Europe towards Digital Inquisition?

    Elaborating on this unacceptable confusion, the document goes as far as saying that "the Internet becomes an instrument of social regression".
    Iceland to become a model for freedom of communication

    Refusing repressive conservatism and the temptation of big corporations and politicians to control the Internet, Iceland would become a haven for freedoms on the Internet.
    Lista de Vigilancia de Propiedad Intelectual 2009 de Consumers International
    Como explicamos más abajo, esta situación deja en evidencia que los dirigentes polÃ*ticos de los EE.UU. aplican un doble estándar cuando comparan su propio sistema con el implementado por otras naciones.

    La Lista de Vigilancia de PI 2009 revela que en las siguientes áreas cubiertas por la encuesta, ningún paÃ*s consideró los intereses del consumidor ya que ninguno obtuvo la clasificación más alta:

    • Libertad de acceso y uso por parte de los creadores de contenido. El sello distintivo de la era de Internet es que el consumidor deja de ser un sujeto pasivo de información y entretenimiento, sino más bien se convierte en un contribuyente vital para la producción de blogs, comparte
    videos en lÃ*nea, ingresa información en Wikipedia, mashups, rémix y más. Ningún paÃ*s encuestado apoyó de manera adecuada los intereses de los consumidores para expresar su creatividad en dichos formatos, incluyendo la expectativa de hacer uso razonable de los recursos otorgados por la cultura que los circunda.

    • Libertad para compartir y transferir. De la misma forma, los consumidores tienen interés en acceder a información y entretenimiento en diversas formas, incluyendo su consumo a un precio justo, mediante arriendo y/o descargando libremente su contenido no-comercial, además de compartirla con sus pares.
    Translation:

    As we explained below, this situation exposes the fact that US politicians have a double standard when they compare their own system with the one implemented in other nations.

    The Lista de Vigilancia 2009 (2009 watchdog list) reveals that in the following areas no country considered the interest of consumer:

    • Freedom of access and use from creators of content. The distinction in Internet is that consumer is no longer a passive subject of information and entertainment, and he becomes a contributor for blog production, shares videos, inputs information in Wikipedia, mashups, remix, and more. No nation supported the interests of consumers to express creativity in those formats, including a reasonable use of resources of the surrounding culture.

    • Freedom to share and transfer. In the same way, consumers have interest in having access to information and entertainment in different ways, including consumption at a fair price, via renting or free download of non commercial content, aside of sharing with their peers.
    Last edited by ar81; 03-31-2010 at 01:22 PM.
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    But what issue was settled? The translation you sent me suggests that the issue is still there -- P2P networks themselves are still legal (all good and well), but media piracy is not really illegal.
    This quote:
    piracy isn't against the law in Spain unless it's done for profit.
    Thats what the courts in Spain just decided on. I think its silly to base an article like this around a ruling you haven't been able to see the effects of yet. If the link was bad (I was online way to early), my bad. Try this one: http://torrentfreak.com/file-sharing...-spain-100315/
    “P2P networks are mere conduits for the transmission of data between Internet users, and on this basis they do not infringe rights protected by Intellectual Property laws,”
    SGAE of course appealled.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I think you're right on this -- the distribution system is mucking things up for them and is simply outdated. Though if that system disappeared overnight, do you think people in places like Spain would start paying for things like digital downloads?
    I don't know, but I know that I would prefer a formal channel where I can buy and download what I want rather than the situation I have right now. And you may call me an optimist, but I think most people are willing to pay in order to get something really good.
    Congratulations America

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I suspect the reason there is no digital viewing services in Spain is because of the rampant piracy -- no company wants to compete on offering a legal digital copy when there is no legal support against people who pirate movies.
    Almost every digitial distribution service in existence now came about partly because of, or after, the market was saturated with unchecked piracy by users. Itunes didn't create the mp3 market, and napster's death didn't kill the downloading trend. When is the last time you heard of a user getting sued for downloading a video game? Yet services like Steam, Direct2Download, and & Impluse are making a bloody killing.

    Sure there have been attempts that have failed, but are you going to blame those on piracy instead of the service sucking? Sony beat Apple to the download market, but they wanted something like $5 for a song that expired. Now I wonder why people didn't flock to that idea.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 03-31-2010 at 11:37 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Mostly, but not all. My favorite publishing house launched a free online library of titles, because the publisher expected that it would spur sales, of those books actually in the library and of other titles by authors of those freely accessible books. He was right on both counts. He started including free cds with new hardcover releases, containing multiple other titles in several formats and that also spurred sales. Movies might be different but it has been demonstrated, in both physical print and in electronic print, that free access to books does not hurt the profits of quality publishing.
    Books can be part of a series. You put the first 2 of 5 books out there free... well you'll get more takers for books 3, 4 and 5. Furthermore this can be done well after the original first published run of the books years later. Movies tend to not have that sort of shelf life.

    Now if movie makers want to let their content be accessed freely, more power to them. However they own it. Its their to with as they will. If someone is stealing it then it should be stopped.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I suspect the reason there is no digital viewing services in Spain is because of the rampant piracy -- no company wants to compete on offering a legal digital copy when there is no legal support against people who pirate movies.



    I think you're right on this -- the distribution system is mucking things up for them and is simply outdated. Though if that system disappeared overnight, do you think people in places like Spain would start paying for things like digital downloads?



    Good point about not comparing numbers to other countries.

    But what issue was settled? The translation you sent me suggests that the issue is still there -- P2P networks themselves are still legal (all good and well), but media piracy is not really illegal.
    There could also be rampant piracy because there is no decent alternative. I mean, everybody downloaded music for free before places like iTunes, too.

    First of all, a lot of people don't mind paying a little to watch legally, without hassle (like Hazir). I also pretty much only download tv series that I simply can't watch here. And even legal, free online alternatives with advertising (like the legal south park website) are popular, people don't mind the commercials. Youtube also adds commercials on a lot of music videos now. And because advertising can be more personal on the internet, that's actually better for them than on tv. Digital tv with on demand viewing is also gaining popularity (and paid for).

    And a Dutch research (from a credible source) concluded that downloading added value to society. People who download music, games, movies without paying, buy, on average, just as much as non-downloaders (games downloaders buy even more games than non-downloaders). They also visit more concerts, buy more merchandise, and discover bands by downloading that they later buy/visit. This means that famous artists are hurt more while unknown artists profit, and the movie industry is hit harder than music and games. Overall, they concluded that the positive economic effect was larger than the negative effect, both on short and long term.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  16. #16
    Unfortunately if a company relies only on something that can be copied, it means that it lacked a real service.
    For example, at work I code. The value of my code is that it solves a problem. The valuable thing is not my code, but the solution.

    IP laws are about creating monopolies on content. If sun was covered by IP law, you would live in darkness.
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  17. #17
    On the otherside of the world, we have people calling themselves the U.S. Copyright Group, planning to file 50,000 lawsuits in an already swamped federal court. They hope to create a business plan around winning financial compensation for horrible as fuck indie films like Far Cry & Uncross the Stars. Thus making sure such films are seen by even fewer people.

    Being dragged to court over these films? Thats got to be embarrassing.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    And a Dutch research (from a credible source) concluded that downloading added value to society. People who download music, games, movies without paying, buy, on average, just as much as non-downloaders (games downloaders buy even more games than non-downloaders). They also visit more concerts, buy more merchandise, and discover bands by downloading that they later buy/visit. This means that famous artists are hurt more while unknown artists profit, and the movie industry is hit harder than music and games. Overall, they concluded that the positive economic effect was larger than the negative effect, both on short and long term.
    You're confusing correlation with causation. The people who download a lot of music/movies are the people who are hardcore music/movie fans. That means that if they weren't able to download their material, they'd spend even more money on those products. To somehow suggest that they spend more money because of the piracy is putting causal logic on its head.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    That means that if they weren't able to download their material, they'd spend even more money on those products.
    No

  20. #20
    Thank you for another one of your incredibly insightful rejoinders.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You're confusing correlation with causation. The people who download a lot of music/movies are the people who are hardcore music/movie fans. That means that if they weren't able to download their material, they'd spend even more money on those products. To somehow suggest that they spend more money because of the piracy is putting causal logic on its head.
    Not necessarily, a lot of downloading is merely people checking if something is worth spending money for. And like I said before, most people understand why they should want to spend money for certain things. That in the long run getting it all for free is not what they really want.
    Congratulations America

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Thank you for another one of your incredibly insightful rejoinders.
    We could go through another round of me asking you for actual evidence. This time something that shows modern society spends more on a product category that they aren't able to acquire digitally. But as with previous requests for actual proof, thats only going to end up with you talking out your ass, or trying to limit the results to some obscure definition of hardcore and/or fan, then with you walking away from the thread.

    So why bother?

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Thank you for another one of your incredibly insightful rejoinders.
    If someone couldn't afford what they pirated in the first place, how would they buy more of the legit content once the illegal kind was no longer available?

    Or what about the people who only consume a piece of content because it is free? I.E. the only reason they try it or pirate it is because it costs them nothing. Once the cost is greater than free, they no longer consider it worth consuming?
    . . .

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    That means that if they weren't able to download their material, they'd spend even more money on those products.
    It's rampant nonsense to conclude that. It could be the case, but you have absolutely no data to suggest it. All you have is that it strikes you as plausible.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    On the otherside of the world, we have people calling themselves the U.S. Copyright Group, planning to file 50,000 lawsuits in an already swamped federal court. They hope to create a business plan around winning financial compensation for horrible as fuck indie films like Far Cry & Uncross the Stars. Thus making sure such films are seen by even fewer people.

    Being dragged to court over these films? Thats got to be embarrassing.
    So it means that China has the great Chinese Firewall and US has Hollywood, MPAA and RIAA as the representative of internet repression.
    The amazing thing here is the business model of a company that dedicates time and money to hunt down and harass potential customers, treating them as the enemy.



    I do not have a problem. I do not like commercial crap. If you have kids, teach them RIAA and MPAA products are crap. That way you will not expose yourself to a fine. It is precisely the taste for their products which causes them to be punished by MPAA and RIAA.
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    If someone couldn't afford what they pirated in the first place, how would they buy more of the legit content once the illegal kind was no longer available?

    Or what about the people who only consume a piece of content because it is free? I.E. the only reason they try it or pirate it is because it costs them nothing. Once the cost is greater than free, they no longer consider it worth consuming?
    I'm referring to products that are available for purchase.

    It must be worth something to other; otherwise they wouldn't spend the time and effort to download it. They might not buy all of the content they download (if downloading wasn't an option), but they'd probably buy at least some.

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    It's rampant nonsense to conclude that. It could be the case, but you have absolutely no data to suggest it. All you have is that it strikes you as plausible.
    Is it unreasonable to assume that the people who download the most music/movies are very interested in music/movies?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  27. #27
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You're confusing correlation with causation. The people who download a lot of music/movies are the people who are hardcore music/movie fans. That means that if they weren't able to download their material, they'd spend even more money on those products. To somehow suggest that they spend more money because of the piracy is putting causal logic on its head.
    First of all, you can only spend this much, and by downloading you can better select what you should spend it on (and possibly be willing to spend more because you are certain you will like it, e.g. pirate a 10$ CD and then buy a 25$ ticket).

    So it's not that illogical. Question is which factor is bigger. According to their research ('they' being the dutch version of NIST, roughly), the gain is positive allover. More positive for games and music, slightly negative for movies, and hurting big companies and rewarding small companies (it devalues PR spending and values artistic quality more).
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    First of all, you can only spend this much, and by downloading you can better select what you should spend it on (and possibly be willing to spend more because you are certain you will like it, e.g. pirate a 10$ CD and then buy a 25$ ticket).

    So it's not that illogical. Question is which factor is bigger. According to their research ('they' being the dutch version of NIST, roughly), the gain is positive allover. More positive for games and music, slightly negative for movies, and hurting big companies and rewarding small companies (it devalues PR spending and values artistic quality more).
    Except people spend money on things other than music/movies/games. If they were pushed, they'd cut back elsewhere, as was the case when piracy wasn't as big an issue.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  29. #29
    Where's that argument again that piracy is basically harmless to profits?
    In the 80's, when the cassette track ruined music business forever, and VHS bankrupted Hollywood?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    as was the case when piracy wasn't as big an issue.
    And I assume you have numbers that show the percentage of household income spent on music or movie entertainment before and after piracy became an issue?

    Hell, when did piracy become an issue? Lately its been the internet, and slightly before that it was home CD burners, and before that the ability to record from the air, and we can't forget dual deck stereo systems; and thats just on the music front.

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