She Killed HERSELF!

[Illusions]

Huzzah! A true triumph of Western legal thinking.

There isn't a problem if we don't know it exists!

[ar81]

Those who suffered from bullying when in school have no sympathy for the bullys, their families, and the teachers who knew and did nothing to stop it, and they sem to be now having to endure, according to some people in the net.

Death of Phoebe Prince - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The public has essentially ruined the lives of anyone and everyone even remotely involved with what happened to Phoebe.
Even unrelated people living in the same area who happen to have the same last name as one of the perpetrators are receiving relentless and scalding bitterness from people all around the world.
Internet sites have been put up with maps to their houses, their telephone numbers, where their parents work, etc. The website for the school she went to has been shut down.

Some people think these people are hounded out of the country, preferably to hell, since those who are inhumane have no place in humanity.
It is interesting to see society take it upon itself to exact justice in this case, knowing the legal system cannot go far enough in punishing the bullys and their parents. When enough people are ruined for life, maybe the bullying will stop. It was a very bad move to bully her...

There are comments at the end of this article:

What can be done to stop bullying?

[Ziggy Stardust]

I hate to say this to someone I once praised because he never resorts to namecalling, but you're an unchristian fucking moron Lewk. Fuck you very much you fucking dick head.

[Hazir]

How Britain drove its greatest genius Alan Turing to suicide... just for being gay

I once thought that Turing was an incredible genius... thanks for setting me straight and helping me realize that he was just a stupid fuck, after all.



You say that as if you know it isn't.

Read the article on Turing - sounds like death is a better fate than being betrayed and persecuted by the very society you helped save from destruction... oh, and being forced to take hormone injections that give you man-boobs.



Says your odd priorities. What about those who see life's primary goal as maximizing happiness and minimizing unhappiness? If stuck in a situation where chronic unhappiness is certain, suicide would be the rational solution that problem.



Total cop-out, but OK, I'll play your game.

John Atchison

A pedophile prosecutor spending the rest of his life in jail? <shudder> He wouldn't have been tortured as badly if he was accused of heresy by the Spanish Inquisition.



Only if you think that death is the worst possible fate.

Personally, as someone with something resembling an imagination, I can say that death is certainly not the worst possible fate, and thus, there are a great many situations where I'd rather die (even if I had to do it myself) than endure living.



Yes, they do.

You're being as bad as Hazir in the closed-minded cop-out department here. Scroll up and read Turing's story. Undeniably sane and undeniably a suicide. And it seems like a perfectly rational decision to me. Suicide can be a completely rational act, and telling yourself that it's a mental illness won't change anything but your delusions.

So, let's assume I am lazy and don't bother to read your links. Then what do we have? One man acting under duress after being subjected to hormone injections and another one on merely extreme duress. Yeah, that really sounds like people making considered decisions to end their lives.

Funny coincidence that I talked to one of my nephews about the subject of ending your own life. He told me that about 3 years ago he seriously considered it, but came out the right way. In retrospect he thinks it was a combination of a depression made worse by sugar imbalances. He was quite happy that he hadn't done anything silly back then.

Some months ago a turkish female friend made an attempt; after she recovered the only thing I told her that I thought she was too stupid for words trying to off herself taking pills. She thought it quite funny I told her that if she really wanted to kill herself I could give her some real useful tips.

[Illusions]

I don't see what the point to continuing discussion with you on this matter is if you're just going to assume or rationalize that all people who would want to commit suicide are mentally unstable or are of unsound judgement.

[Hazir]

I don't see what the point to continuing discussion with you on this matter is if you're just going to assume or rationalize that all people who would want to commit suicide are mentally unstable or are of unsound judgement.

Nobody has given any evidence to the contrary so far.

[Bitter Jeweler]

Wow.

[CitizenCain]

So, let's assume I am lazy and don't bother to read your links.

I'd rather assume you're too stupid to read them, as that would make my life much easier. You don't mind, do you?

Then what do we have? One man acting under duress after being subjected to hormone injections and another one on merely extreme duress.

Only if we ignore the logical arguments I've forwarded regarding situations where suicide is the rational choice. But I suppose we are, which makes me wonder why anyone would bother trying to discuss this topic with you when you ignore any counter-point you can't be bothered to assume or justify away.

Yeah, that really sounds like people making considered decisions to end their lives.

Oh, so what the fucking hell did you actually mean when you said "Give me one valid example where a physical healthy person is better off dead?" Because I gave you one... arguably two. And your hand wave dismissal of it is "duress." Pfffffft. Well no shit. As opposed to... all the perfectly rational reasons to commit suicide when life is going too well? Jesus Q. Christ on a pogo stick.

Funny coincidence that I talked to one of my nephews about the subject of ending your own life. He told me that about 3 years ago he seriously considered it, but came out the right way. In retrospect he thinks it was a combination of a depression made worse by sugar imbalances. He was quite happy that he hadn't done anything silly back then.

Verily, you have shown me. Clearly, anyone who considers suicide is beset by temporary difficulties that will pass with time. Obviously, it's a physical impossibility that someone could be beset by permanent problems which would serve to make life unbearable in perpetuity.

[Hazir]

Ok, have fun explaining to the world suicide is a much better way of dealing with problems than actually addressing the problems themselves.

[CitizenCain]

Ok, have fun explaining to the world suicide is a much better way of dealing with problems than actually addressing the problems themselves.

Only if you promise to have fun addressing well-supported and thought-out counter-opinions with your ostrich impression.

[Hazir]

Only if you promise to have fun addressing well-supported and thought-out counter-opinions with your ostrich impression.

You have proven shit. Wanna try a couple of months on hormones and still claim you can think?

[CitizenCain]

John Atchison was receiving hormone injections?!?!?!

Oh, excuse me... you're doing such an impressive ostrich impression that I forgot you were Hazir for a moment.

[Lewkowski]

I can't believe some here actually think that a 15-year-old has the mental capacity to withstand long-term psychological abuse, assault, and rape without at some point breaking down. FFS, there's a reason people under 18 are considered minors. Any person will break given a sufficient amount of psychological abuse, and there seemed to be a large amount of it in this case. Engaging in illegal actions that could reasonably be expected to lead to death is at the very least manslaughter. Putting any blame on the dead teen is simply absurd.

Loki did she choose to do it or was she forced? The obvious answer is she choose to commit suicide. She had other options. 15 is not too different from 18. In other periods of time a 15 year old could be expected to be raising a child or doing adult work.

She knew right from wrong and chose wrong. As far as the "rape" charge is concerned from what I understood it was a statutory rape charge. Do you really agree with the idea of locking up teenagers for sleeping with other teenagers? 19 to 13 is one thing but that is not what happened here.

[LittleFuzzy]

A charge of statutory rape alongside an injury charge indicates some perp's parents are friends of the DA.

[Steely Glint]

Lewkowski, if you could only be a contemptable moron about things which don't directly effect people in the future, that'd be awesome.

[Hazir]

John Atchison was receiving hormone injections?!?!?!

Oh, excuse me... you're doing such an impressive ostrich impression that I forgot you were Hazir for a moment.

Oh, I forgot that for some people living in prison is not exceptional.

[CitizenCain]

Oh, I forgot that for some people living in prison is not exceptional.

So I ask again... what is it, approximately, that you actually want here?

You seem to be taking the position that suicide cannot possibly ever be the "right" decision, ever be a rational action, or ever be something that any healthy, sane person could possibly seriously consider. To that end, you threw down the gauntlet and challenged someone to provide you with just one example of a healthy person who's better off dead. ("Give me one valid example where a physical healthy person is better off dead. Just one ... ") So I did - and even provided a link and a brief explanation of why (John Atchison). And your response was basically "assume I'm too lazy to read your links... and also, my nephew didn't kill himself because he had a sugar imbalance."

Well, OK.

Might it be easier and more honest just to come out and admit that there's no way you'll ever change your mind, and trying to discuss this with you is less productive than a discussion with a brick wall? Nothing wrong with having an opinion that's set in stone - you'll never convince me that death is the worst possible fate, for example - but you should at least admit that you're unwilling or unable to change your opinion on suicide, rather than engaging in a discussion on the topic under the pretense of being open to alternate points of view.

[Illusions]

You have proven shit. Wanna try a couple of months on hormones and still claim you can think?

If I'm not mistaken gender reassignment usually involves taking hormones for months, as does birth control, certain treatments for menopause, and other medical conditions...

...I take it from your tone that these people are either insane or not of sound mind or judgement...

[Lewkowski]

So I did - and even provided a link and a brief explanation of why (John Atchison).

Awww they took him off the suicide watch.... damn should have made sure he couldn't end it until after he's gone to the prison shower...

Couldn't of happened to a nicer fellow either.

[Nessus]

should have made sure he couldn't end it until after he's gone to the prison shower...

Advocating rape as a method of state punishment, just like Uncle Jesse would've done

[Aimless]

This is the most bizarre discussion I've seen on this forum since coming here. The most sensible and succint post was made by Loki

I can't believe some here actually think that a 15-year-old has the mental capacity to withstand long-term psychological abuse, assault, and rape without at some point breaking down. FFS, there's a reason people under 18 are considered minors. Any person will break given a sufficient amount of psychological abuse, and there seemed to be a large amount of it in this case. Engaging in illegal actions that could reasonably be expected to lead to death is at the very least manslaughter. Putting any blame on the dead teen is simply absurd.

I have no idea how Lewk--and Hazir??!--can ignore this. They're villifying someone for breaking down under torture when they should be villifying the torturers it's retarded to pretend that a--likely depressed--child that is being abused to this extent is a rational, competent moral agent who can be expected to care about anything more than her own immediate suffering.

Well done Hazir for offering your friend tips on how she could go about killing herself. I'm sure you helped solve whatever problem it was that led her to consider suicide in the first place




Re. the mental-illness "cop-out"... even when it's not due to mental illness it can be a tragedy.

[GGT]

You're being as bad as Hazir in the closed-minded cop-out department here. Scroll up and read Turing's story. Undeniably sane and undeniably a suicide. And it seems like a perfectly rational decision to me. Suicide can be a completely rational act, and telling yourself that it's a mental illness won't change anything but your delusions.

Yeah, I should have used a different word than "sane". Underlying issues, neurochemical, emotional, physical, there's always a reason. Happy or contented people don't commit suicide does that sound better?

It would be completely sane to decide not to live in a body riddled with disease, for instance.

Even though Hawking can, I don't think I could. I'd choose assisted suicide, that would be rational in my mind, and it would be a choice. But I also don't have an amazing brain or any exceptional gift as a trade-off.

Lewk and Hazir seem to think ALL of it's a FREE and unencumbered choice, when often it's not (for people with mental illness and impaired thinking or judgement, sometimes meds make it worse).

[Ominous Gamer]

This is the most bizarre discussion I've seen on this forum since coming here. The most sensible and succint post was made by Loki





I have no idea how Lewk--and Hazir??!--can ignore this. They're villifying someone for breaking down under torture when they should be villifying the torturers it's retarded to pretend that a--likely depressed--child that is being abused to this extent is a rational, competent moral agent who can be expected to care about anything more than her own immediate suffering.

Well done Hazir for offering your friend tips on how she could go about killing herself. I'm sure you helped solve whatever problem it was that led her to consider suicide in the first place




Re. the mental-illness "cop-out"... even when it's not due to mental illness it can be a tragedy.

You saved me from reading what likely would have turned out to be 4 pages of bullshit. Thanks I'm assuming you didn't leave out any of GGT's penis comments?

[EyeKhan]

This is the most bizarre discussion I've seen on this forum since coming here. The most sensible and succint post was made by Loki





I have no idea how Lewk--and Hazir??!--can ignore this. They're villifying someone for breaking down under torture when they should be villifying the torturers it's retarded to pretend that a--likely depressed--child that is being abused to this extent is a rational, competent moral agent who can be expected to care about anything more than her own immediate suffering.

Well done Hazir for offering your friend tips on how she could go about killing herself. I'm sure you helped solve whatever problem it was that led her to consider suicide in the first place




Re. the mental-illness "cop-out"... even when it's not due to mental illness it can be a tragedy.

1. Loki's changed.

2. As for the rest of it +1.

3. In principle, I believe suicide should be legal for consenting adults of sound mind and free of major responsibilities. This case is not that. At all.

[Loki]

1. Loki's changed.

2. As for the rest of it +1.

3. In principle, I believe suicide should be legal for consenting adults of sound mind and free of major responsibilities. This case is not that. At all.

What should be the punishment for people who commit suicide despite having major responsibilities?

[littlelolligagged]

What should be the punishment for people who commit suicide despite having major responsibilities?

You get one day of not being hated for that.

Just from me, though. Everyone else will continue to despise you.

[Nessus]

What should be the punishment for people who commit suicide despite having major responsibilities?

By Lewk's logic, their kids should be hanged or something similar; an ounce of deterrence is worth a pound of blood, or something

[EyeKhan]

What should be the punishment for people who commit suicide despite having major responsibilities?

It that particular utopian fantasy, helpful clinics would be available for those who needed them. There would be a waiting period and a psych evaluation and presumably a social evaluation. If you don't qualify in either case you would be denied service and maybe referred for help. So the cost would be dignity and ease, I guess. Not much to stop you, surely.

You get one day of not being hated for that.

Just from me, though. Everyone else will continue to despise you.

Despite my best efforts, I've stopped hating Loki for a few months now.

[Illusions]

By Lewk's logic, their kids should be hanged or something similar; an ounce of deterrence is worth a pound of blood, or something

Oh. I thought it was going to be "raped in a jail cell somewhere by a very large angry man"...

[Nessus]

Oh. I thought it was going to be "raped in a jail cell somewhere by a very large angry man"...

Lewk has been very adamant about keeping faith out of the legislature; while he knows that the spirit of the corpse would be horrified by homosexual sodomy, he would object to that being enshrined into law. No no, man on man rape is strictly for the living.