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Thread: What made you go WTF today?

  1. #3901
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Hope is the denial of reality

  2. #3902
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    To continue with the theme of insane academic jobs in politics, this time with a British twist:

    http://www.jobs.ac.uk/job/BEC886/fix...p-in-politics/

    And this is Oxford. Which apparently pays 13k a year for the honor of being a lecturer, tutor, admissions officer, program officer, and graduate advisor.
    Don't Oxford have 30 academic weeks a year? Dividing that salary by 30 weeks and by 6 hours per week which they keep repeating means getting paid at approximately £75 per hour. £75 per hour is not a bad rate for someone who is still studying themselves on their doctorate. Even if there's three extra hours per week for the other stuff which they're repeatedly implying there isn't then that still works out at £50 per hour.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #3903
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Don't Oxford have 30 academic weeks a year? Dividing that salary by 30 weeks and by 6 hours per week which they keep repeating means getting paid at approximately £75 per hour. £75 per hour is not a bad rate for someone who is still studying themselves on their doctorate. Even if there's three extra hours per week for the other stuff which they're repeatedly implying there isn't then that still works out at £50 per hour.
    Those six hours per week require a lot of additional work to prepare and to assess. I'm sure someone will be interested.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  4. #3904
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Don't Oxford have 30 academic weeks a year? Dividing that salary by 30 weeks and by 6 hours per week which they keep repeating means getting paid at approximately £75 per hour. £75 per hour is not a bad rate for someone who is still studying themselves on their doctorate. Even if there's three extra hours per week for the other stuff which they're repeatedly implying there isn't then that still works out at £50 per hour.
    The job requires:
    Teaching 2 year-long theory classes. Depending on the person's experience, that's anywhere between 5-10 hours a week in preparation, 2-3 hours a week in lecturing, and another hour in grading.
    6 hours of tutorials a week means not only spending those 6 hours, but also preparing for them. Add a few more hours for that.
    Ability to teach other classes suggests they might want the person to teach another class. Add another 8-14 hours for that.
    Advisor to grad students is easily 5-10 hours a week.
    Undergrad admissions could eat up as many as 40 hours a week, though only for perhaps a month a year.
    The person is also expected to do research, since there's no chance in hell of them ever getting another job otherwise. That's a solid 5-10 hours a week during term-time, and 20-30 hours a week during the "vacation"

    So what you're looking at is a full-time job requiring working 40-50 hours a week for 2/3 of the year, and perhaps 20-30 hours a week the rest of the time. For that, the person is getting paid 1/3 less than someone flipping burgers at McDonald's. And this after having completed (or about to complete) their Ph.D.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  5. #3905
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Sorry but being expected to do research is part and parcel of being a PhD student already it is literally a key part of why they are a student in the first place. You can't count that as work unless you think all PhD students should get paid. Nor can you include another class hours that you've randomly thrown in because if they were teaching another class they'd get paid for that class too. The job is for this class only.

    The rest of the time I think is an exaggeration too but even including that your numbers still don't remotely add up.

    Assuming the student is 25 plus they'd get £7.50 per hour for a minimum wage job (less if younger). To be "one third less" than what someone flipping burgers makes the person flipping burgers would need to be working 90 hours per week if we look at a 30 week term time. Working steady shifts for 52 weeks of a year they'd need to be working roughly 52 hours a week.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  6. #3906
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Ooh I'd misread the article too. The article specifically says the job is for each eight week term. That means 24 weeks. So they're getting paid £558.96 per week for what is being posted as a six hour per week job. £93.16 per hour.

    For it to be a third less than a "burger flipper" gets the burger flipper would need to be over 25 and working 112 hours per week. If you include the additional £500 research allowance the burger flipper would need to be working over 116 hours per week.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #3907
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    The PhD research is essentially a requirement for this job and it should therefore be counted.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #3908
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    The student already has or is completing the PhD so it should not be counted. An employer is never obligated to pay for what someone already has.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #3909
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Sorry but being expected to do research is part and parcel of being a PhD student already it is literally a key part of why they are a student in the first place. You can't count that as work unless you think all PhD students should get paid. Nor can you include another class hours that you've randomly thrown in because if they were teaching another class they'd get paid for that class too. The job is for this class only.
    Wait, what? Whether the person is a Ph.D. student or not (the job ad suggests the person should already have the Ph.D.), they're not a student at Oxford. Oxford is getting an employee. The job is a fixed-term lectureship. Research is a key part of being a lecturer. Each university in Britain gets judged on the quantity of its research. This has a major impact on funding decisions.

    The rest of the time I think is an exaggeration too but even including that your numbers still don't remotely add up.
    Yeah, it's not like I actually do things or anything. Or work in the same field.

    The student already has or is completing the PhD so it should not be counted. An employer is never obligated to pay for what someone already has.
    You seem to have no idea what research is. Do you actually think research means writing a dissertation and then chilling for the rest of your career?

    That means 24 weeks. So they're getting paid £558.96 per week for what is being posted as a six hour per week job. £93.16 per hour.
    Ok, let's start with 24 weeks for teaching. Add 2-3 weeks for giving and grading exams. Another 3-4 for admissions. Another few weeks for preparing syllabi. Closer to 32 weeks now. And you're fully expected to do research the rest of the time. If you don't, you don't get retained and you don't get hired elsewhere.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  10. #3910
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    On a side note over here PHD students in at least STEM fields (probably other fields as well but not 100% sure) are paid, as they are working 40+ hours a week for the university (research in the labs, teaching, grading etc.). Not an excellent pay but not bad either.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  11. #3911
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Wait, what? Whether the person is a Ph.D. student or not (the job ad suggests the person should already have the Ph.D.), they're not a student at Oxford. Oxford is getting an employee. The job is a fixed-term lectureship. Research is a key part of being a lecturer. Each university in Britain gets judged on the quantity of its research. This has a major impact on funding decisions.
    The job is getting posted as a part-time 6 hour a week for 24 weeks post not a full time permanent post.
    Yeah, it's not like I actually do things or anything. Or work in the same field.
    Yeah its not like you're the first person in a field to think that he and his colleagues deserve more money. Funny how everyone thinks they're undervalued and nobody ever says how overpaid they are.

    We'll see if they're unable to find someone to fill the vacancy. Something tells me they will be able to which means the free market thinks it isn't underpaid.
    You seem to have no idea what research is. Do you actually think research means writing a dissertation and then chilling for the rest of your career?
    No I think its not part of the job description, because its not.
    Ok, let's start with 24 weeks for teaching. Add 2-3 weeks for giving and grading exams. Another 3-4 for admissions. Another few weeks for preparing syllabi. Closer to 32 weeks now. And you're fully expected to do research the rest of the time. If you don't, you don't get retained and you don't get hired elsewhere.
    So you can maybe shift that £93.16 per hour based on the universities job description down to say £70 an hour. Good look finding a McDonalds burger flipper on 50% more than that like you claimed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #3912
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The job is getting posted as a part-time 6 hour a week for 24 weeks post not a full time permanent post.
    Yes, that's what they posted. If you think that's actually a number reflecting reality I've got some bottom land to sell to you.
    Just don't ask what's it on the bottom of.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  13. #3913
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Why not just use an "I am not a robot" checkbox?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  14. #3914
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Alternative: play the score faster. Even faster than its creator meant for it to be played. And see what happens. New story problem.

    I heard a thing on the radio where Beethoven's 5th was played at extreme speeds. Not by bots, but real people who'd been "trained" to think/play a certain way (with limits) and were amazed and gratified by challenging speed once thought impossible. As a listener it didn't make much difference, but I did get a kick out of classical music played by people actually strumming instruments, instead of computers doing the work. It still sounded good, just different.

  15. #3915
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  16. #3916
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    I realized that a large part of my home ownership mentality surrounded around collecting stuff, and having space to store that stuff. Now that I'm downsizing, cleaning out my basement and garage, and moving to an apartment....it's amazing the amount of stuff that's now become irrelevant (snow shovels, water hoses and garden hoes) that used to need space. Even the oversized 2 car garage is a WTF moment.

  17. #3917
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  18. #3918
    ======== Timbuk2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    "Scientists raise alarm: bananas can cause EU"
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  19. #3919
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    An Oxford graduate's failure to get a top degree cost him a lucrative legal career, the High Court has heard.

    Faiz Siddiqui alleges "inadequate" teaching on his modern history course resulted in him getting a low upper second degree in June 2000.

    He blames staff being absent on sabbatical leave and is suing the university for £1m.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-42070712
    Hope is the denial of reality

  20. #3920
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    That time where taxation actually was theft
    The walls are coming down.
    All we need is one to fail, one to break, one to take it all away.
    What if we crumble, what if we fall? Where's the flame that torch the soul?
    Truth, when spoken, dies down to nothing.

  21. #3921
    Police are "hopeful but guarded" that they caught the local serial killer. People are partying and celebrating like its 1999. People let their guard down once before when they were hoping that the Home Depot truck attack in New York was the work of our serial killer. Hoping the police have the right guy and no one else dies needlessly.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  22. #3922
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Hope is the denial of reality

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