It is fiction and I've not read the book so couldn't possibly comment.
Have you got anything non-fiction to discuss? Like suing the Labour Party to stop it from apologising? This is getting a bit "yeah but her emails" from you on this subject.
Yes what the author intends matters. Sometimes stuff is written to shock or reflect and not to be taken literally. That's why it's fiction.
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Ah, so he was doing antisemitism but it was ironic. Good to know.
Labor's troubles with antisemitism might be interesting to discuss with someone who doesn't have a long history of making craven and outright absurd defenses of every other kind of racism when it comes from someone with a blue rosette but sadly no one like that seems interested in the topic.
Discussing it with you would basically be like trying to discuss how the Democrats take for granted the support of black Americans and don't do enough to actual tackle topics of importance to them (the recent protests about police violence being a prime example) with Lewkowski... it's like, yes, it's true there's a problem there but holy shit look at the people you support.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Bullshit, the Tories (unlike the GOP) kick out the far right racists from the party while Labour have allowed the far left racists to fester within theirs. Hence your trying to scrape fiction FFS in whatabouterism looking for something to whinge about from the other side rather than acknowledge the truth or just condemn Labour's antisemitism for what it is; even when Labour itself are trying to apologise for it. You're acting in this thread exactly like Lewkowski is in the QAnon thread refusing to condemn QAnon and saying 'yeah but whatabout Antifa'.
You and Lewk are just the same.
Okay look you're already the British Lewkowski so that position has already been filled. Trying to pin that label on Steely is like seeing the "no puppet, you're the puppet" exchange. Meanwhile, Johnson has a long history of making racist comments, as well as facilitating the publication of extraordinarily racist—including overtly antisemitic—texts. So, really, you just don't have a leg to stand on. Labour's issues with antisemitism led to electoral punishment, but racism and Islamophobia continue to help drive Tory support. Fortunately, the electorate is becoming more diverse despite that.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I'm nothing like Lewkowski. If there's something wrong on my side I criticise it. No ifs, no buts, no whatabouterisms. Unlike Lewk and Steely.
There is no Islamophobia tolerated within the Tory party. Unless you act like the extremist Baroness Warsi and consider any criticism of extremists to be Islamophobia.
Twitter Link
Labour Party preparing the ground for removing the whip from (expelling from the party essentially) Jeremy Corbyn due to his antisemitism.
I wonder if then Steely will be prepared to unequivocally condemn Corbyn or will he still be saying Corbyn did nothing wrong andwhat about her emailswhat about the Tories?
Credit where credit is due. Well done Sir Keir for facing this front on. Hope it does lead to expulsions for the guilty parties.
Twitter Link
It's really funny to see you trying to show you're not an Islamophobic racist by using Islamophobic rhetoric. Right up there with your classic "Irish accents", but worse.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Put up or shut up. Name some Islamophobia.
No criticising Islamic extremists isn't Islamophobia.
What's fascinating is that, being called out over Islamophobia, your go-to move is to label those Tory Muslims who have tried to draw attention to it as "extremists". Because what else would a Muslim who has the temerity to speak up be, if not an extremist? The rhetoric is related to the antisemitic tropes about Jews controlling the global economy and the media and pushing a pro-immigration globalist agenda—and let's not forget the antisemitic tendency to implicitly or explicitly portray Jewish people as Zionists, or employ denigrating caricatures, or facilitate the publication of overtly antisemitic texts. The "Irish accents" episode is a telling but by no means isolated example, dear English Lewkowski.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ality-watchdog
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ation-in-partyA dossier of more than 300 allegations of Islamophobia in the Conservative party has been submitted to the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, increasing pressure on the watchdog to launch a formal investigation.
Good one Boris.The Conservatives have been accused of ignoring systematic Islamophobia in their ranks after Boris Johnson broke his promise to hold an inquiry specifically into the issue and announced a broad-brush review of how the party handles discrimination complaints instead.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Rebecca Long-Bailey: Shares article from the Independent *gets sacked for anti-semitism*
Jacob Reece-Mog: Shares video from far right AfD party in Germany *gets made Leader of the House of Commons*
The double standard in the way we treat people with double-barrelled surnames is sickening.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
People spout bollocks and lies about so-called Islamophobia to the EHRC and you want to claim that as evidence. If there had been 300 real acts of Islamophobia then the EHRC would have gotten involved with an investigation as it did with Labour. It didn't.
Do you think the EHRC is not fit for purpose? Or was the so-called 300 allegations really much ado about nothing?
Rand, your propensity for not reading anything ever has once again bitten you in the ass: the Tories have started their own investigation, as mentioned in the first link and discussed in the second.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/complaints-raised-about-islamophobia-conservative-party
They have not started an investigation because the Tories are running their own investigation and will review their decision if the Tory investigation proves to be a whitewash.“We have given very careful consideration to complaints raised about discrimination and islamophobia in the Conservative Party. We have concluded, in the light of the decision by the Party to institute an independent investigation, that it would not be proportionate to initiate our own investigation at this stage. We will be monitoring the review and requiring the party to provide regular updates on progress. If we are not satisfied with progress or how the investigation is conducted we will review our decision and do not rule out the use of our legal powers.”
This is a mistake in, my view, it's is better to have an outside organisation do these reviews to avoid 'we investigated ourselves and found we'd done nothing wrong' syndrome, but what can do you do, Tories gonna Tory.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Yes but if there was substantial evidence of a problem then they wouldn't be waiting as you say.
No... they wouldn't? It says right there why they're not doing one in plain English. I'll put it in again, if you like:
If there's no substantial evidence, then why are the Tories doing one?We have concluded, in the light of the decision by the Party to institute an independent investigation, that it would not be proportionate to initiate our own investigation at this stage.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
For political reasons.
I'm yet to see any actual examples of Islamophobia which haven't been dealt with. 'Someone said x and was then expelled from the party' doesn't count, it was the lack of action by Labour against antisemites that was the issue.
Be kind, he's still waiting to hear from DZCfKWCRGaWWLtDOSGT.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
The latest time I asked to you do this about your claims about Corbyn you told me that you, quote, 'couldn't be arsed'. I guess another thing you 'couldn't be arsed' with was reading the articles I posted at lunchtime, since they mentioned numerous examples.
Anyway, here are two of the more prominent examples which I will post on the grounds that you 'can be arsed' to look at them if they're on the same page that you're already looking at.
Retweeted Linden Kemkaran, Tory candidate for Bradford East. She was investigated by the Tories but nothing came of it, and she still stood in the 2019 election..
There's also Sally Anne Heart who won Amber Rudds old seat in 2019, who endorsed a blog post in 2017 promoting anti-Muslim conspiracy theories which she described as an 'affecting read'. She was placed under investigation and, presumably like Kemkaran, remains under investigation to this day, since she is still a member of the Tory party.
EDIT:
Guardian is blocking image linking, screenshots in article here: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...play-race-card
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
So Kemkaren from a quick Google search never said anything dodgy herself the screenshot is for a retweet that was deleted and she said that she didn't think that. I don't use Twitter but there do seem to be a lot of people on it who say retweet doesn't mean you agree with what is being said.
In a tweet responding to criticism, according to the Local Democracy Reporting Service, Mrs Kemkaran said: "Of course I don't think Muslim culture is negative or 'nasty' - quite the opposite in fact.
"When I interact with anyone I see the human being first, that matters way more than colour/religion/sexuality etc. I wish others would do the same."
In another response she said: "Can I just make it absolutely clear that I didn't and never would describe Islam or any other culture as 'nasty' - I'm the product of a multi-cultural/heritage background and a constant promoter of diversity and equality."
Twitter is a stupid platform. Regarding Hart I can't see any outcome to that investigation it looks like its still ongoing.
Reading is magic.
What's funny is it's, like, Bradford East. One of the safest Labour seats in the country, she's literally just there to make up the numbers, not a prospective MP. Get rid of her and find someone not racist.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Steely, I can only speak from the US experience, but it's generally quite challenging to get someone reasonable to run for a seat they have no chance of winning. I live in one of the bluest parts of the US, and the Republicans who run for office are almost exclusively one of two categories: wildly far right and Trumpy, often to the point of being offensive, or so moderate they'd be a Democrat in much of the rest of the country. The latter sometimes get elected, but they often fit into the national party with a great deal of discomfort. It's not crazy to believe a similar process plays out in the UK, though I'll freely admit I don't understand how candidates are chosen.
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
All I'll say about that for now is that your general understanding of how the process plays out in the UK is accurate.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Yeah its well said wiggin.
That's why scrapping the bottom of the barrel saying 'yebbut look at this unelected nobody from a nothing seat' . . . versus look at the parties own actual leader, the people around him, the people being promoted etc.
Any party has nutters sometimes but in the GOP with Trump and in the Labour Party with Corbyn the parties were both suddenly taken over by people who had always been dismissed even by their own side as cranks. Steely tries to lump Boris in with Trump but its farcical, Boris was a mainstream Tory who'd been Minister or Shadow Minister under many leaders and twice elected Mayor of a Labour city. Corbyn had spent 30 years in Parliament regarded as an 'awkward' crank until overnight he became leader and with him came all the racist extremists he hung out with - Milne, Burgon etc
You either have an extremely short or an extremely selective memory.
In the other thread, we had his whole back and forth about a list I compiled of a dozen or more bigoted remarks made by Boris Johnson, and about his cheerful willingness to platform racists in the Spectator. When asked to perform the same feat for Corbyn all you could come up with was that he'd once said Zionists don't know how to yuck it up and then, when asked to deliver the other examples you said existed you said you, quote, 'couldn't be arsed'.
This was before having the sheer shitting gall to tell Minx to 'put up or shut up' when he brought up Islamophobia in the Tory party, which is just *chef kiss*.
Yeah, Steely and also literally every other British member of this board plus several European or American members who take an interest in British politics.Any party has nutters sometimes but in the GOP with Trump and in the Labour Party with Corbyn the parties were both suddenly taken over by people who had always been dismissed even by their own side as cranks. Steely tries to lump Boris in with Trump but its farcical, Boris was a mainstream Tory who'd been Minister or Shadow Minister under many leaders and twice elected Mayor of a Labour city. Corbyn had spent 30 years in Parliament regarded as an 'awkward' crank until overnight he became leader and with him came all the racist extremists he hung out with - Milne, Burgon etc
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Some other left wingers? Sure.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
I think it's fair to compare Trump and Johnson in respect to their ability to tell the truth. They both lie in plain sight on a monumental scale; the likes of which we've rarely seen.
The sooner they are both gone and we have leaders that are mature and credible enough to put the state before their own ego, legacy and general narcissistic interests the better.
They both represent a sorry period of time and history will not look kindly on them.
From a centre-right conservative who values truth, decency and expects the highest standards of our political leaders.
My position too.
I'm right of centre, and certainly not left wing.
It's funny how if you call out right wing liars and idiots like Boris or Trump for their lies and idiocy you are suddenly left wing. Expecting standards is not a left or right wing thing, it is a general expectation of leadership.
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