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Thread: Confederate History Month!

  1. #1

    Default Confederate History Month!

    Governor declares Confederate History Month in Virginia

    Anita Kumar and Rosalind S. Helderman
    Washington Post Staff Writers
    Wednesday, April 7, 2010; 11:00 AM

    Gov. Robert F. McDonnell, reviving a controversy that had been dormant for eight years, has declared that April will be Confederate History Month in Virginia, a move that angered civil rights leaders Tuesday but that political observers said would strengthen his position with his conservative base.


    Rosalind S. Helderman: Hi everyone and welcome! There are a lot of great questions already about Virginia's Confederate History Month proclamation. Let's get started.

    _______________________

    Arlington, Va.: Anita and Rosalind,

    Exactly what constituency is Gov. McDonnell trying to reach out to with this proclamation? To me it just seems unnecessarily provocative with no real benefit to any party.

    Anita Kumar: Some political observers say Governor McDonnell was trying to appeal to the conservative part of the Republican party -- particularly those who support state's rights and those who oppose federal intrusion. Mark Rozell, a political scientist at George Mason University, said that in our story this morning. While many people were angered by the news this morning, many praised him including conservatives such as Patrick McSweeney, a former state GOP chairman.

    _______________________

    Arlington, Va.: I don't see what the fuss is all about. The Confederacy was about states' rights; slavery was merely incidental to the rights of states to regulate commerce as they see fit. Don't you agree?



    Rosalind S. Helderman: Well, this is a subject of vigorous historical, social and political debate. I can tell you, several of our fellow chatters today agree and several disagree. I'm about to post a message from one of those readers.

    _______________________

    Washington, D.C.: I am a minor in American history. Why is it that Civil War apologists want to whitewash the root causes of the Civil War to suggest that it was about more things than slavery? If you look at the "State's Rights" arguments put forth by John C. Calhoun they are all focused on slavery. If you look at the economic disparities issue between industrialized North and pre-industrial South that's all directly related to the plantation system and slavery. Every supposed alternative reason for the civil war is based on the issue of slavery.

    Rosalind S. Helderman: Here's a reader who does not agree at all that the Civil War was fought over state's rights.

    _______________________

    Bethesda, Md: Why is this such a controversy? Why is anything Confederate equated to slavery? Isn't this outcry just a Northern perspective? McDonnell is not saying he is pro slavery. He is just declaring that Virginia historically fought against a central federal government that exerted its central power on all states. The result of the War of Succession is the loss of local rights. For instance if your entire state disagreed with the Iraq war, it doesn't matter, the Feds decided to go and your state will participate and pay for it. If your whole state is against abortion, it doesn't matter. Fed's decide what is good for you. Same with mandatory healthcare. That is what I think of when I look at the history of the war. Slavery is important, but there is a lot more to it. Why do newspapers and pundits overlook comments like mine?? Please answer.

    Rosalind S. Helderman: We don't overlook your comments at all! There are certainly a lot of people who agree with you. And there are plenty who don't and feel as though leaving out slavery misses an important part of the war. You're comparison of the situation to the health care debate is an interesting one. Virginia political professor Bob Holsworth thinks Democrats in the state are going to try hard to tie the Confederate History Month proclamation to exactly such arguments in an attempt to undermine the efforts to use state government to push back against the federal government.
    _______________________

    It goes on, but you can read it or ignore it as you wish.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...=moreheadlines


    I had lunch today with a friend who comes from Virginia. We didn't talk about the proclamation in particular, but she believes the south was exploited by the north. Even though we both live in PA, she calls me a Yankee.

    What a strange and surreal thing in 2010?

  2. #2
    I have a number of Liberal friends who are outraged by this. I can't understand why, though I do see a slight irony of putting Confederate History Month right after Black History Month. It happened and we need to remember the contributions Virginia made, for good or evil. Yes slavery was horrible, and deserves to be mentioned, but there were plenty of other reasons why secession occurred. I guess people think it was done to somehow promote the ideas of slavery?

  3. #3
    No, it was about States Rights to keep slavery legal.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  4. #4
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coinich View Post
    Yes slavery was horrible, and deserves to be mentioned, but there were plenty of other reasons why secession occurred. I guess people think it was done to somehow promote the ideas of slavery?
    I think the folks who don't understand how anyone could possibly harbor a genuine dislike for our all-knowing, benevolent federal overlords assume that any recognition of the Confederacy is a backhanded support of racism, rather than an explicit support of "states rights."

    EDIT: see, there's one of them now, getting his post in just before mine.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  5. #5
    Considering most public history books skim over everything upto and during the Civil War, I support this Confederate History Month.

  6. #6
    Those STATES RIGHTS in Full:

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas
    The government of the United States, by certain joint resolutions, bearing date the 1st day of March, in the year A.D. 1845, proposed to the Republic of Texas, then a free, sovereign and independent nation, the annexation of the latter to the former as one of the co-equal States thereof,

    The people of Texas, by deputies in convention assembled, on the fourth day of July of the same year, assented to and accepted said proposals and formed a constitution for the proposed State, upon which on the 29th day of December in the same year, said State was formally admitted into the Confederated Union.

    Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated States to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility [sic] and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?

    The controlling majority of the Federal Government, under various pretences and disguises, has so administered the same as to exclude the citizens of the Southern States, unless under odious and unconstitutional restrictions, from all the immense territory owned in common by all the States on the Pacific Ocean, for the avowed purpose of acquiring sufficient power in the common government to use it as a means of destroying the institutions of Texas and her sister slave-holding States.

    By the disloyalty of the Northern States and their citizens and the imbecility of the Federal Government, infamous combinations of incendiaries and outlaws have been permitted in those States and the common territory of Kansas to trample upon the federal laws, to war upon the lives and property of Southern citizens in that territory, and finally, by violence and mob law, to usurp the possession of the same as exclusively the property of the Northern States.

    The Federal Government, while but partially under the control of these our unnatural and sectional enemies, has for years almost entirely failed to protect the lives and property of the people of Texas against the Indian savages on our border, and more recently against the murderous forays of banditti from the neighboring territory of Mexico; and when our State government has expended large amounts for such purpose, the Federal Government has refused reimbursement therefor, thus rendering our condition more insecure and harrassing than it was during the existence of the Republic of Texas.

    These and other wrongs we have patiently borne in the vain hope that a returning sense of justice and humanity would induce a different course of administration.

    When we advert to the course of individual non-slave-holding States, and that [of] a majority of their citizens, our grievances assume far greater magnitude.

    The States of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa, by solemn legislative enactments, have deliberately, directly or indirectly violated the 3rd clause of the 2nd section of the 4th article of the federal constitution, and laws passed in pursuance thereof; thereby annulling a material provision of the compact, designed by its framers to perpetuate amity between the members of the confederacy and to secure the rights of the slave-holdings States in their domestic institutions--a provision founded in justice and wisdom, and without the enforcement of which the compact fails to accomplish the object of its creation. Some of those States have imposed high fines and degrading penalties upon any of their citizens or officers who may carry out in good faith that provision of the compact, or the federal laws enacted in accordance therewith.

    In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon the unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color--a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and the negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.

    For years past this abolition organization has been actively sowing the seeds of discord through the Union, and has rendered the federal congress the arena for spreading firebrands and hatred between the slave-holding and non-slave-holding States.

    By consolidating their strength, they have placed the slave-holding States in a hopeless minority in the federal congress, and rendered representation of no avail in protecting Southern rights against their exactions and encroachments.

    They have proclaimed, and at the ballot box sustained, the revolutionary doctrine that there is a "higher law" than the constitution and laws of our Federal Union, and virtually that they will disregard their oaths and trample upon our rights.

    They have for years past encouraged and sustained lawless organizations to steal our slaves and prevent their recapture, and have repeatedly murdered Southern citizens while lawfully seeking their rendition.

    They have invaded Southern soil and murdered unoffending citizens, and through the press their leading men and a fanatical pulpit have bestowed praise upon the actors and assassins in these crimes, while the governors of several of their States have refused to deliver parties implicated and indicted for participation in such offences, upon the legal demands of the States aggrieved.

    They have, through the mails and hired emissaries, sent seditious pamphlets and papers among us to stir up servile insurrection and bring blood and carnage to our firesides.

    They have sent hired emissaries among us to burn our towns and distribute arms and poison to our slaves for the same purpose.

    They have impoverished the slave-holding States by unequal and partial legislation, thereby enriching themselves by draining our substance.

    They have refused to vote appropriations for protecting Texas against ruthless savages, for the sole reason that she is a slave-holding State.

    And, finally, by the combined sectional vote of the seventeen non-slave-holding States, they have elected as president and vice-president of the whole confederacy two men whose chief claims to such high positions are their approval of these long continued wrongs, and their pledges to continue them to the final consummation of these schemes for the ruin of the slave-holding States.

    In view of these and many other facts, it is meet that our own views should be distinctly proclaimed.

    We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

    That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.

    By the secession of six of the slave-holding States, and the certainty that others will speedily do likewise, Texas has no alternative but to remain in an isolated connection with the North, or unite her destinies with the South.

    For these and other reasons, solemnly asserting that the federal constitution has been violated and virtually abrogated by the several States named, seeing that the federal government is now passing under the control of our enemies to be diverted from the exalted objects of its creation to those of oppression and wrong, and realizing that our own State can no longer look for protection, but to God and her own sons--We the delegates of the people of Texas, in Convention assembled, have passed an ordinance dissolving all political connection with the government of the United States of America and the people thereof and confidently appeal to the intelligence and patriotism of the freemen of Texas to ratify the same at the ballot box, on the 23rd day of the present month.

    Adopted in Convention on the 2nd day of Feby, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-one and of the independence of Texas the twenty-fifth.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  7. #7
    Just Floatin... termite's Avatar
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    Funny thing is though it is a pretty sweet flag...


    Such is Life...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by coinich View Post
    but there were plenty of other reasons why secession occurred.
    You could list what you feel they were so we could discuss them here.
    . . .

  9. #9
    Wasn't there a Simpson episode that covered them?

    EDIT:
    It was called Much Apu about Nothing

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Wasn't there a Simpson episode that covered them?
    I don't see how this is relevant to my interests of requesting coinich to backup statements he makes with actual knowledge of his own...
    . . .

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    I don't see how this is relevant to my interests of requesting coinich to backup statements he makes with actual knowledge of his own...
    Only saying that for it to end up on the Simpsons, Coinich's claim is pretty much considered common knowledge.
    http://www.wtso.net/movie/75-The_Sim...t_Nothing.html
    18 minute mark, bonus points for noticing the connection between the practitioner's response, and some of the responses here.

  12. #12
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    http://www.wtso.net/movie/75-The_Sim...t_Nothing.html
    18 minute mark, bonus points for noticing the connection between the practitioner's response, and some of the responses here.
    Holy suck that site fucks. Cookie blizzards, blaring audio ads... try my clip instead.

    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Holy suck that site fucks. Cookie blizzards, blaring audio ads... try my clip instead.
    You've just been Foxed...
    . . .

  14. #14
    Thats why I went with the official channel

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Thats why I went with the official channel
    Without adblock I'd rather rub onions in my eyes than deal with the amount of ad crap I have to wade through to view a video...and one of the ads is a continuous video with audio playing louder than the actual content...making the whole effort pointless...
    . . .

  16. #16
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Right, I forgot why youtube sucks so much. Also, FOX for forgetting that Family Guy and Futurama are among their copyrights.

    http://www.mediafire.com/file/tdwi1tjj5ym/civilwar.avi

    (XViD 1.1.0b2)
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    You could list what you feel they were so we could discuss them here.
    States Rights inluded:
    the tariff
    local slavery laws
    interactions between the Federal Government and the state
    a general trend of a strengthening Federal Government

    I think if I bothered researching a bit more, I could come up with a few others. It certainly wasn't the first time secession was attempted; New England attempted to do so during/after the War of 1812 protesting the disruption of relations with England as well as the costs of the war, and the South threatened to do so on multiple occasions beforehand. In a sense, in the election of 1860, their bluff was called.

    And of course slavery was considered an important state and personal right at the time; I think it held more sway than the tariff at the time, even despite the massive disparity between the rich slave holders and the poor "white trash" farmers especially seen in the Appalachian and other mountainous regions. Since it was the rich who were in power, naturally the right to determine and protect slavery (the latter to be imposed on the other states they traveled in) was a major goal of theirs.

  18. #18
    Do you think the people celebrating Confederate History month will be celebrating for those reasons or because they're The South, to maintain their special form of separating themselves from Librul Elitist Intellectual Northerners, a general dislike of "colored folk/negroes/a word that looks remarkably like naggers"...? Because whenever I see the Confederate flag here in NY it isn't because they want to express their love of states rights, etc. its because they really liked the idea of the South pre-abolition of slavery...
    . . .

  19. #19
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    Do you think the people celebrating Confederate History month will be celebrating for those reasons or because they're The South, to maintain their special form of separating themselves from Librul Elitist Intellectual Northerners, a general dislike of "colored folk/negroes/a word that looks remarkably like naggers"...? Because whenever I see the Confederate flag here in NY it isn't because they want to express their love of states rights, etc. its because they really liked the idea of the South pre-abolition of slavery...
    I dunno, why not ask the guy below? (Warning, contains an expletive, so maybe NSFW.)



    That racist mother fucker. Why doesn't he just go off and join the KKK alre.... oh, right, probably because of the whole black skin thing.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    That racist mother fucker. Why doesn't he just go off and join the KKK alre.... oh, right, probably because of the whole black skin thing.
    Well he does admit that he'd like to give reparations to southerners for their property that was destroyed, however he's not sure how to do that...but we could always give them something the south viewed as property at the time they lost it, and it looks like we might have a volunteer!

    I wonder actually how that would go down...

    Government Official:
    Mr. Edgerton, we've heard about your idea for reperations to those southerners who lost property during the Civil War, and would like to say its a splendid idea, and endorse it entirely. We're going to begin distribution immediately.
    H. K. Edgerton: Well I'm glad you folks saw it my way, however its much too kind of you to come down here to thank me in person.
    Government Official: Oh, no, no, no. We're here to collect property equivalent to that which was lost by the Confederate States of America during the war.
    H. K. Edgerton: I'm not following you.
    Government Official: We're here to pick you up so we can give you to a nice person by the name of Thompson, Mr. Edgerton.
    H. K. Edgerton: But I'm a person, not property.
    Government Official: It says right here in the Confederate States of America's Constitution, and I quote "No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed"...so, it looks like you are property Mr. Edgerton. Take him away boys!
    Last edited by Illusions; 04-08-2010 at 08:49 PM.
    . . .

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