IS are claiming another attack in Versailles, near Pari. The fatal stabbing of a French Police Office and his wife. Not going to get the same profile as previous attacks but pretty tragic.
http://news.sky.com/story/1711521/po...-hostage-drama
New IS attack in Paris
IS are claiming another attack in Versailles, near Pari. The fatal stabbing of a French Police Office and his wife. Not going to get the same profile as previous attacks but pretty tragic.
http://news.sky.com/story/1711521/po...-hostage-drama
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Time to ban knives...
In all seriousness though the problem isn't the weapon of choice, the problem is Islamic terror. Very sad to see a family cruelly butchered by this animal.
Right. You don't see the difference between the AR-15 killing 50 people in Orlando vs. a knife killing 2 in Paris?
Hope is the denial of reality
"The problem" is violent radical extremism. That's not relegated to Islam, ya know. Even the supposed pro-life Christian movement has bombed Planned Parenthood clinics, and killed doctors.
Right you don't see the similarities between the following?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rorist_attacks
2016[edit]
Afghanistan January 1, 2016 – A Taliban suicide bomber detonated himself in a French restaurant called 'Le Jardin' in Kabul. 2 dead 15 injured.[204]
India January 2, 2016 – In the 2016 Pathankot attack suspected Jaish-e-Mohammed militants attacked an Indian air base killing 7 security force members. Several injured.[205]
Iraq January 3, 2016 – Five Islamist suicide bombers attack an Iraqi military base. 15 dead and 22 injured.[206]
Afghanistan January 4, 2016 – A Militant drove a truck packed with explosives to the armored gates of a compound for civilian contractors near Kabul's airport before detonating. 30 people injured, including children.[207]
Libya January 7, 2016 – In the Zliten truck bombing Islamist militants detonated a truck bomb at the police training camp al-Jahfal in the coastal town of Zliten, Libya. 50+ dead 100+ wounded.[208]
France January 7, 2016 – In the January 2016 Paris police station attack an Islamist from Morocco wearing a fake explosive belt attacked police officers with a meat cleaver. He was shot dead.[209]
Libya January 7, 2016 – A car bombing at a checkpoint in the Libyan oil port of Ras Lanuf left seven people dead and 11 wounded.[210]
Egypt January 8, 2016 – In the 2016 Hurghada attack two militants armed with a melee weapon and a signal flare stormed the Bella Vista Hotel. 3 injured.[211]
France January 11, 2016 – A 15-year old Turkish ISIL supporter attacked a teacher from a Jewish school in Marseille with a machete. 1 injured.[212]
Iraq January 11, 2016 – ISIL gunmen detonate suicide vests in a shopping mall, killing at least 20 and wounding more than 40 people.[213]
Turkey January 12, 2016 – In the 2016 Istanbul bombing an ISIL suicide bomber kills 10 tourists and injures 15 more in the historical centre of Istanbul.[214]
Indonesia January 14, 2016 – In the 2016 Jakarta attacks 4 assailants kill 2 and injure 24 in a terrorist attack in Jakarta. The attack was orchestrated and financed from ISIL in Syria.[215]
Somalia January 15, 2016 – In the El Adde attack, Al-Shabaab terrorists attack a African Union Kenyan army base in El-Adde. 63+ killed, several injured.[216]
Burkina Faso January 15, 2016 – In the 2016 Ouagadougou attack Islamist gunmen armed with heavy weapons attacked the Cappuccino restaurant and the Splendid Hotel in the heart of Ouagadougou, the capital of Burkina Faso. 20+ killed. 15+ injured.[217]
Pakistan January 21, 2016 – At least 22 killed in attack on Bacha Khan University, Pakistan. The Taliban claim responsibility for the attack.[218]
Somalia January 22, 2016 – Al-Shabab attack on beachside restaurant leaves 20 dead.[219]
Cameroon January 25, 2016 – Suspected Boko Haram insurgents have blown themselves up in a market in Cameroon, killing at least 25 people and injuring 62 others.[220]
Nigeria January 30, 2016 – Boko Haram gunmen raided a Nigerian village, at least 65 people were killed and 136 others injured.[221]
Ivory Coast March 13, 2016 – In the 2016 Grand-Bassam shootings Al Qaeda gunmen stormed 3 hotels in the beach resort city of Grand-Bassam in the Ivory Coast, leaving 18 people dead.[222]
Iraq March 20, 2016 – In Anbar, Iraq, ISIL suicide bombers kill at least 24 at municipal building[223]
Belgium March 22, 2016 – 2016 Brussels bombings includes two suicide bombings in Brussels Airport and one bombing in Brussels Metro that resulted in 35 deaths and more than 300 wounded.[224]
Yemen March 25, 2016 – Three ISIL suicide bombers strike security checkpoints in the Yemeni city of Aden, killing 26 people.[225][226]
Iraq March 25, 2016 – 30 people killed and 95 injured after a suicide bomber blew himself up at a football stadium in Iskandariya, south of Baghdad. ISIL claimed responsibility for the attack.[227][228]
Pakistan March 27, 2016 – The 2016 Lahore suicide bombing targeted Christians who had gathered on Easter in Gulshan-e-Iqbal Park. The blast, by Jamaat-ul-Ahrar, a Pakistani Taliban faction, killed at least 70 people and injured 300 others.[229][230]
Afghanistan April 19, 2016 – The April 2016 Kabul attack targeted a security team responsible for protecting government VIPs in Kabul, Afghanistan. The attack killed 64 people and wounded 347. It was the Taliban's biggest attack on an urban area since 2001.[231]
Bangladesh April 23, 2016 – Attackers hacked a university professor to death in the city of Rajshahi, Bangladesh. ISIL claimed responsibility for the attack stating that they assassinated him "for calling to atheism in the city of Rajshahi in Bangladesh".[232][233]
Bangladesh April 25, 2016 – Two gays rights activists were hacked to death in the capital of Bangladesh, Dhaka. An Al-Qaeda affiliated group claimed responsibility for the attacks and stated they killed the two as they were "pioneers of practicing [sic] and promoting homosexuality in Bangladesh".[234][235]
Iraq May 11, 2016 – At least 40 people were killed and 60 injured in a car bomb attack on a market in Baghdad. ISIL claims responsibility.[236]
United States June 12, 2016 – At least 50 people were killed and 53 injured in a mass shooting at a nightclub in Orlando, Florida. The shooter, Omar Mateen, pledged allegiance to ISIL.[237][238]
And that's just 2016....
The problem isn't violent radical extremism it is violence! You can lump it however you want in your own mind but there is a massive difference between the two. Terrorists often have nation-state support, they have a vast worldwide network and KILL A WHOLE HELL OF A LOT MORE PEOPLE. The fact that you decide to play ostrich to the fact doesn't make it any less true."The problem" is violent radical extremism. That's not relegated to Islam, ya know. Even the supposed pro-life Christian movement has bombed Planned Parenthood clinics, and killed doctors.
Lewk, are you seriously comparing battle-hardened rebels with loser psychopaths in the West? Hint: one is far better at killing people than the other. The reality is that the Orlando guy with a handgun probably doesn't kill more than 5 people. With a knife, I doubt he kills more than 1-2. Ditto for the theater and the elementary school shooters.
Hope is the denial of reality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack
Knives are dangerous.
Now let's be honest here. Can guns multiply the impact of an attack? Yes. Absolutely. However they can also stop an attack as well. It is a double edged sword.
However the gun laws in France didn't do much good did they? And if you were somehow able to completely eliminate all guns (fat chance) they would still find ways to kill us. Be it with knives, machetes or bombs. The problem is Islamic Terrorism.
How many attacks have AR-15 stopped?
You're again conflating loser crazies with battle-hardened rebels/terrorists.
Hope is the denial of reality
If violence is the problem, then the US has a really big problem! Even our "entertainment" is violent. Is Hollywood, Disney, or game developers the biggest perpetrators of violence.....or are we just a society that loves violence, and therefore violent games?
..... the hell did I just read?
A specific gun, really Loki? How about semi-automatic guns in general want me to find some stories where those saved lives?
The guy pledged allegiance to ISIS. I'm not sure what your deal is on this issue. It isn't like someone couldn't get training in how to use other weapons if necessary. How to make a bomb could be found on the internet without any special training needed.
Seeing as how the AR-15 is not the standard when it comes to self-defense, probably fewer than the accepted norm, which would be a semi-automatic pistol.
Then why is the AR-15 even sold to civilians?
Might as well ask why are pressure cookers even sold to civilians!
Pressure cookers aren't a "constitutional right".
To cook potatoes?What's the reason for AR-15 again?
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
So you're saying we don't have a 2nd amendment to stop the much needed pressure cooker legislation. Let's get on it already then!Pressure cookers aren't a "constitutional right".
Cos mah great-grandpappy's grandpappy got scared them there guv'mint folk might a try to steal his rights.
Last edited by Timbuk2; 06-14-2016 at 07:37 AM.
Well, I am starting to wonder if it really is. Part of their terrorism is we, ourselves, make it much bigger than it actually is. Everything suddenly is IS terrorism. All we need is some nut job on a rampage shouting Allahu Akbar and immediately we allow a failing entity in the middle east to take credit for it. Maybe we should stop doing that. Especially if you consider the particulars of the Orlando massacre there are reasons to think that IS only came into the equation long after the dice were rolled.
As for the gun question: terrorist organizations will indeed find automatic weapons and so will hardened criminals. Not every messed up loner feeling rejected though if you have some controls. And that seriously could make your shopping malls and places of entertainment a lot safer.
Congratulations America
And if y'all don't have AR-15's then King George is going to return ...
Completely agreed. School shootings for instance don't happen because of hardened criminal gangs or terrorism. Instead it is an hormonal teenager snapping and grabbing what is available in a moment of madness.
Removing guns from the USA would be difficult but nothing like as difficult as removing hormonal angst from teenagers.
So if I provided a reason for the AR-15 that does not involve criminal action you're good with them being allowed among the populace like you would for pressure cookers?To cook potatoes?
No. If it could cook potatoes though...
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
You probably can with the barrel, i think I've seen bacon cooked that way.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
I think there's an interesting divide that opens up when discussing US mass shootings that also appear to have a political element. When the shootings appear to be apolotical, the discussion revolves around gun control with a dash of mental health. When an attack is clearly political Islam (e.g. Paris) the discussion inevitably revolves around Muslims. But here we appear to have some uncertainty, so you're getting both - the right is moaning about Muslims in the US, and the left is moaning about gun control.
To an extent, one might argue that it doesn't really matter, but I think it does. If this shooting was the work of a deranged individual, then his religion and claimed political affiliation is irrelevant - he would likely have latched onto any available ideology to justify his actions; then the arguments in favor of gun control and better mental health screening and the like have an element of truth to them. If, however, he was acting rationally as a lone wolf in service of IS ideology, gun control et al is highly unlikely to be useful to prevention - to prevent, you need to address the war raging inside Islam today from a variety of perspectives - but a motivated terrorist (or hardened criminal) is unlikely to find somewhat stricter gun control to be a substantial impediment. That's why the left and right are talking at cross-purposes - they have fundamentally different assumptions about what is going on here.
More broadly, I find it very frustrating when the inevitable gun control discussion raises its head after these kinds of shootings. The fact of the matter is that 'assault weapons' account for a very small proportion of US gun-related deaths. Outlawing them might help on the margins - including some cases of mass shootings - but it's not going to make a dent in the scourge of gun violence faced by our society. To address that, we need to look at the weapons used, the circumstances in which they are used, and find the critical determinants that drive gun violence. Some of this is easy - by far, most homicides and suicides happen with handguns, a substantial proportion of them legally obtained. They are often either perpetrated by and against serial criminals (the other major class being close family/friends of the killer in some sort of domestic dispute). That suggests that addressing gun violence is going to need a very different response that suggested by either the right or left in the wake of mass shootings:
1. Much stricter control on the acquisition and possession of handguns. This will likely require a repeal of the 2nd amendment and the changing of the discussion revolving firearms from one of 'rights' to one of 'responsibilities'. Tweaks at the borders of existing policy (e.g. better background checks) will help but only at the margins.
2. A concerted effort to remove illegal or semi-legal weapons off the street through enhanced enforcement, buybacks, etc.
3. Targeted interventions by law enforcement and social services in hotspots - there have been some interesting trials looking at intervening after a gang shooting to try to de-escalate tensions and stop tit-for-tat killings.
4. More aggressive interventions in domestic disputes, up to an including revoking permits to carry firearms.
There are many more policies that could help, but the point is that very little of the above is covered by the current discussion. Go ahead, ban assault weapons, it'll probably help a little. But if we really want to fix things, we need much more comprehensive and thoughtful approaches to policy. Let's make the debate honest - maybe it involves proposing solutions that are currently unworkable from a political perspective. But to be honest it sure looks like the current tinkering people are proposing is also politically unworkable. So we can at least talk about the real problem and some real solutions to fix it. Who knows, maybe it's possible to shift the conversation in a useful direction - certainly some aspects of homicide prevention won't require a repeal of the 2nd amendment and are at least feasible in the current political climate.
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
Even if the 2nd amendment were abolished, this is one you're never going to be able to pull off in the US. It's a violation of the 5th Amendment. The government cannot treat permits as "at-will." Once they're given, they're given and cannot be revoked without due process.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Not a constitutional scholar, but don't you think there's a way to frame the law to circumvent this issue? We certainly take away other permits (e.g. driving licenses) all the time.
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
Do you do so without due process?
We provide due process but it's still fairly straightforward compared to, say, revoking someone's right to own a gun.
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote