You're the delusional one if you think someone ten times rejected by the public to become even a lowly MP is someone worthy of the time of day. Farage isn't an MP today, he won't be an MP tomorrow and some point probably in 2019 he won't be an MEP. Good riddance.
He is about as relevant to us now as Ross Perot.
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
He'd be as relevant as Ross Perot if Perot succeeded in scuttling NAFTA.
Hope is the denial of reality
Except he didn't Tories did. Furthermore that's history now I'm talking about the future.
And the basis for your sunny optimistic is what?
Hope is the denial of reality
Learning from history. Farage has failed 100% of the time to win a seat in Parliament. UKIP has failed 100% of the time to win a seat in Parliament that wasn't already held by a defector with an established personal vote. They have also lost their USP so should be less popular now not more so how are they suddenly going to achieve a breakthrough in Parliament that has escaped them permanently in the past?
I think you're being a little pessimistic there, RB
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Pessimistic?
Just like the Labour Party never broke the Liberal/Tory duopoly. And just like the Labour Party disappeared after the creation of the welfare state.
Hope is the denial of reality
Well yeah. I mean, you said:
I mean, isn't that a bit pessimistic? I mean, sure, you might be right, but there's certainly a possibility that the UKIP will do better. An optimist would be more optimistic about their chances is all I'm saying.They have also lost their USP so should be less popular now not more so how are they suddenly going to achieve a breakthrough in Parliament that has escaped them permanently in the past?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Hang on. Even if you can't make up your mind which "expert predictions" to like....you're assuming the UK will remain the same, when there's a good chance that it won't. Scotland and Northern Ireland might vote to leave the UK, in hopes of remaining in the EU. (There could even be a "United Ireland" in the next decade, who knows.) Then you'd no longer be the 5th largest economy in the world.
And you'd support their moves toward independence -- for the same reasons you've given for Brexit -- even though it would mean breaking up the UK into smaller pieces, right?
Also, al lot of immigrants aren't so happy with the overt racism of their English neighbours. So population growth could go in full reverse.
Congratulations America
I wondered if/how the immigrant part of Brexit led some votes, to their own detriment? I mean, the UK is like 85% white.....so it's pretty hard to distinguish nationalism from racism.
It's not so clear cut. For some it's racism, for some xenophobia, for some a mix of the two.I wondered if/how the immigrant part of Brexit led some votes, to their own detriment? I mean, the UK is like 85% white.....so it's pretty hard to distinguish nationalism from racism.
Congratulations America
You're right...it's not so clear cut. For example, did the US political class only care about the vanishing middle class, because the middle class was predominantly white?
And can a guy like Trump become "popular" if people are SO fed up with the political 'establishment' that they'd vote for him? Is our process management that bad?
Last edited by GGT; 06-27-2016 at 10:15 PM.
The Labour Party had come to be a party of government before the welfare state was created. If UKIP were in office today (instead of having just one glorified independent) then we'd be in a whole different ballpark ...
Since I view UKIP as a pretty nasty party optimistic for me is UKIP to do badly, pessimistic is it does well. There is a slim (very slim) possibility that UKIP will do better, that will not be a good thing if they do.
Wouldn't this result, which is what they have been campaigning for for years, be claimed as a win by them, and get them (at least a short term, but presumably elections will be soon since you're down a PM) boost? At least, I don't see that as more unlikely than them losign votes now that they've accomplished this.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Well, if the outcome of this whole shitstorm is that they are Norway 2.0 then I could very well imagine that people may forgive Nigel & cie the backing away from their non-promises. Otherwise I really don't know any longer. That country is messed up beyond recognition.
It's also funny though because I have been trying to get into Rand's head forever that getting out only would mean they losoe influence and get no sovereignty back for it.
Congratulations America
Scotland and Northern Ireland represent less than 10% of the UK's GDP. One good year's English economic growth is worth more than all of NI put together.Hang on. Even if you can't make up your mind which "expert predictions" to like....you're assuming the UK will remain the same, when there's a good chance that it won't. Scotland and Northern Ireland might vote to leave the UK, in hopes of remaining in the EU. (There could even be a "United Ireland" in the next decade, who knows.) Then you'd no longer be the 5th largest economy in the world.
And you'd support their moves toward independence -- for the same reasons you've given for Brexit -- even though it would mean breaking up the UK into smaller pieces, right?
Besides, I'd support their moves to indepdnence because they're not happy with the status quo. If they were I'd want them to stay. I've always felt that keeping people hostage is a terrible idea.
Who's been keeping people hostage? I know who's been blackmaling an entire continent, but keeping hostage?
Congratulations America
You think threats to punish people if they try to change course is something else?
You think democracy means suffering no consequences for your decisions?
Hope is the denial of reality
Sure there can be consequences. But threatening a "punishment to prevent contagion" is not a mere consequence.
You call not getting a better deal than any other outsider punishment ?
Congratulations America
It is a mere consequence. Your people do what's best for them, and the people of the other European countries do what's best for them. Don't see why you expect others to take your interests into account when you don't do the same for others.
Hope is the denial of reality
Cutting off your own nose to spite your face is not in the best interests. America doesn't refuse a trade deal with Canada just because Canadians aren't citizens of the US.
Hazir if better options could exist then why not consider them? It will only cause contagion if others also think it's better, but if it's better then maybe that's what should be considered.
Better would mean better than EU members, you seriously think that is an option we will ever give to you?
I see your right wing commentariat is putting its hope on eastern Europe again. What I find very funny in that is that the same people write about 'eurozone south' being hostile towards the UK. Eurozone south easily outweighs all of eastern Eastern Europe. It containing France, Italy and Spain.
Congratulations America
If it's better then why not offer it to EU members too? Though it's only better if you think the EU status quo is worse. If you think the EU status quo is great then our alternative would be worse. Can't you understand the difference, that one size need not fit all?
I might want to eat a chicken breast for dinner this evening and find that the best option for me, a vegetarian might prefer a mushroom risotto and find that better, while someone who prefers red meat might prefer a steak. That doesn't mean that a steak is better than mushrooms, or mushrooms are better than chicken, it means what each of us prefer is different.
However if all of us find chicken better than beans and rice, then why should we all dine on beans and rice?
Because then we might as well give up all together. An organization has no sense if everyone does everything on his own and nobody is willing to pay the membership fees.
Anyway have fun on the outside.
Congratulations America
If that's the best outcome then why not do that? It's only for the best if being outside is as you put it "better".
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