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Thread: Britain's financial sector reels after Brexit bombshell

  1. #1

    Default Britain's financial sector reels after Brexit bombshell

    Reuters

    Britain's 2.2 million financial industry workers face years of uncertainty and the risk of thousands of job cuts after the country voted to quit the European Union, leaving question marks over London's status as Europe's premier financial center.

    The 'Vote Leave' campaign fronted by a slew of Conservative lawmakers and financial industry veterans claimed victory over its 'Britain Stronger in Europe' rival, after 374 of a total 382 counting areas declared majority support for their plan to leave the 28-nation club by 0507 GMT.

    The final official result is expected around 0600 GMT.

    Bankers' early confidence that Britain would remain within the European Union quickly evaporated after early vote counts suggested the "leave" camp had the upper hand, sending sterling plummeting to a thirty-year low and heart-rates racing on trading floors from London to Hong Kong.

    A leave vote means the future of Britain's financial services industry is now hanging in the balance.

    All depends on the divorce between Europe and Britain, the latter's ability to retain access to the European free market, and cope with the volatility that has seen sterling nosedive against major global currencies.

    Mood in the restaurants and coffee shops in the high-rise banking hub of Canary Wharf, home to JPMorgan JPM.L, Citi (C.N), HSBC (HSBA.L) and Barclays (BARC.L), was sober and contemplative, with job security fears rising to levels unseen since the 2008 financial crisis.

    Major investment banks have already warned they could move thousands of jobs elsewhere if Britain opts out of the EU, while the European Central Bank has signaled it could force euro trading out of London, the world's largest foreign exchange market.

    Wall Street bank Morgan Stanley (MS.N) could move around 1,000 of its roughly 6,000 employees currently in Britain on to the Continent if the country votes to leave the EU, a person familiar with the matter has told Reuters.

    Jamie Dimon, CEO of rival JPMorgan told staffers his bank "may have no choice" but to overhaul its UK business model, casting a pall over its 16,000 strong workforce.

    But for now, sources at banks said memos emailed internally to rattled employees advised them to think about clients first.

    "I've convened a big team meeting at 0800 GMT as the juniors are freaking out. I will tell them to focus on their job and wait for the volatility to pass but the reality is much, much starker, we'll have a crash and big layoffs," a senior investment banker at a U.S. bank told Reuters.


    CARNAGE ON MARKETS

    Months of bitter campaigning has left the industry - which earned the nation 190 billion pounds in 2014 - deeply divided, with investment banks and insurers pitted against many fund managers and brokers who wanted a Brexit.

    "This is the biggest vote in my lifetime. Black Wednesday and the impact of Lehman Brothers collapsing - these other big events don't even compare in magnitude to this," said Mark Boleat, Chairman of the City of London's Policy and Resources Committee.

    "We are just beginning to think through what will have to happen legally and it is massive, absolutely massive," he told Reuters.

    Reflecting the uncertainty that will hit the financial services sector, Hong Kong-listed shares of HSBC (HSBA.L) and Standard Chartered (STAN.L) fell more than 10 percent, while other UK banks are expected to post sharp declines when they start trading in London.

    All the major international and British banks in London had traders either working through the night or on call. Bankers in New York were also burning the midnight oil with special numbers laid out for clients to call, foreign exchange desks fully staffed and senior management keeping a fretful eye on screens.

    "Leave's victory has delivered one of the biggest market shocks of all time ... Panic may not be too strong a word," Joe Rundle, Head of Trading at ETX Capital said.

    Many financial firms rely on the EU's 'passporting' regime to sell their services across all of the bloc while basing the majority of their staff and operations in London.

    European government officials said UK-based firms could lose these privileges in the event of a Brexit, a move that would force them to shift some of their operations to the likes of Frankfurt, Paris or Dublin if they wanted to serve EU clients.

    WHAT NEXT?

    The Financial Conduct Authority said it would not comment about any immediate action it might take until after the referendum result has been formally announced. The Bank of England's Prudential Regulation Authority said it had no comment for the time being.

    For investment bankers, a Brexit vote is more than just about volatile prices on a screen but also about where they may end up working and living.

    "I will be ok because I've had a long career and I have savings and assets," the senior banker said.

    "People just starting out, people in much more precarious situations, will lose out from Brexit."

    But some commentators said the volatility would be temporary and would soon subside when international investors drawn by a fall in sterling began to scour financial markets for bargains.

    "Certainly, some international investors could find the UK less attractive but history shows us others are positively attracted to economies that get a devaluation boost," said Colin McLean, Managing Director at SVM Asset Management.

    "There may even be more takeover activity from overseas firms looking for bargains on the London stock market," he said.

    Disappointed supporters of the EU project on mainland Europe said Britain would struggle to keep the same market freedoms that have attracted more than 250 foreign lenders to its shores and turned financial services into Britain's biggest export.

    "If Britain guarantees to implement all the rules, then Europe will unlikely punish London," said European Parliament member Sven Giegold, a member of the German Green Party.

    "But the will of the citizens was exactly to get rid of that dependence. That is the irony because you can't do both. If you want to keep your market open, you have to accept all the rules. Without that, Europe would be foolish to extend privileges to the UK and the City of London," he said.
    There goes my job.

    London voted 60% in favour of Remain. Can London call its own referendum to remain part of the EU? We'd be better off without the rest of the UK's parochial backwater ideologies holding back our prosperity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  2. #2
    Internal email from my bank's Group CEO this morning, discussing the impact this has, as share value sinks in this and other global banks headquartered in London.

    I'm now starting to get very worried, as are my colleagues, as the news sinks in.

    2008 all over again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  3. #3
    I hope your job is secure Tim, but even in London 40% voted for this, had London been 100% for Remain we'd be Remaining ceteris paribus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #4
    Already within less than an hour and a half of the market opening almost a third to a half of the lost ground has been recovered. Who could have ever predicted the markets would overreact and then correct back?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #5
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Already within less than an hour and a half of the market opening almost a third to a half of the lost ground has been recovered. Who could have ever predicted the markets would overreact and then correct back?
    The market will stay volatile for quite a while yet.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    The market will stay volatile for quite a while yet.
    I agree, especially for as long as fools think this is a terrible event they will keep sending the market down only for saner heads to make a profit when they buy low and bring it back up. The FTSE is currently "down" to 6054 as I write, leaving it still up on last Friday, see these numbers I quoted a couple of days ago ...
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I'm getting mine from the facts rather than journalists chasing an exciting and easy story that happens to be really twisted. On 11 Feb the FTSE closed on 5537, on Friday the FTSE with Leave leading in the polls the FTSE closed on 5950, the lowest it's closed in the last month is 5923.

    Given that Leave only caught up and then overtook Remain in the last month why is the FTSE over 400 points up before today on what it was only 4 months ago?
    You'd think from the morbid doom and gloom that the FTSE would be at least lower than last Friday FFS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #7
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Rand, at least I was talking of the longterm perspective quite often. And currently you're displaying the attitude of someone who burns down a house and then proceeds to tell the inhabitants how warm and cozy they'll have it.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I hope your job is secure Tim, but even in London 40% voted for this, had London been 100% for Remain we'd be Remaining ceteris paribus.
    Gobsmacking that 'I hope your job is secure', after casting a vote for the reason why his job is on the line.
    Congratulations America

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    The Brexiteers still think they can get some sweet deal; that's what the markets hope for so it's likely they will not crash any further untill it becomes clear the EU is going to push the UK towards the door now. As that is the only sensible thing to do now.

    By the way; congratulation on becoming the 6th largest economy in the world.
    Congratulations America

  10. #10
    It's too early yet for most large players to make their exit partly because it takes time and we don't know yet what coming negotiations will result in. The FTSE meanwhile isn't wholly or even mostly determined by EU membership.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    It's too early yet for most large players to make their exit partly because it takes time and we don't know yet what coming negotiations will result in. The FTSE meanwhile isn't wholly or even mostly determined by EU membership.
    What you think? A certain participant will finally accept that the markets moved up and down with the chances of Brexit ?
    Congratulations America

  12. #12
    I love how quickly Rand's confidence in the market disappeared. Apparently, the market is all-knowing only as long as it agrees with you. This reminds me of the Maduros and Mugabes of the world.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  13. #13
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Speaking of money:

    https://amp.twimg.com/v/6ca5195b-a8a...9-92440b9a25d6

    I love the part where he says:

    "They made a mistake in doing that."

    Yes. They, the voters, made a mistake in voting based on the lies he spread. Consider that.

    What a moron. If you find this guy on the same side as you are on - I'd definitely reconsider if this was the right side. Because anything this guy is for is based on lies, racism, misoginy and other nice stuff.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  14. #14
    It's not yet been a day, and already the exodus from London has started ...

    Morgan Stanley looks to move 2,000 London staff

    Sources within Morgan Stanley say it has already begun the process of moving about 2,000 of its London-based investment banking staff to Dublin or Frankfurt. And it has a taskforce in place.

    The jobs which would be moved from the UK would be in euro clearing but also other investment banking functions and senior management.

    The American investment bank needs to avail of the passporting system which allows banks to offer financial services in all countries in the EU without having to establish a permanent base in that member state.

    The president of Morgan Stanley, Colm Kelleher, told Bloomberg two days ago that Brexit would be “the most consequential thing that we’ve ever seen since the war”.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Speaking of money:

    https://amp.twimg.com/v/6ca5195b-a8a...9-92440b9a25d6

    I love the part where he says:

    "They made a mistake in doing that."

    Yes. They, the voters, made a mistake in voting based on the lies he spread. Consider that.

    What a moron. If you find this guy on the same side as you are on - I'd definitely reconsider if this was the right side. Because anything this guy is for is based on lies, racism, misoginy and other nice stuff.
    Nigel Farage never made that claim, Vote Leave did. Nigel Farage is pissed off that this he has been made redundant by a Vote Leave victory rather this being his victory. It is abundantly clear that the figurehead who won today is Boris Johnson and not Nigel Farage and he is not going to be happy with that, so he's trying to piss on the fire. Who cares, move over to obscurity you hateful irrelevant soon to be ex-MEP.

    Tim Morgan Stanley have denied that: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7100911.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Gobsmacking that 'I hope your job is secure', after casting a vote for the reason why his job is on the line.
    Not really. Jobs are never 100% secure, too much stability is a bad thing. The only permanent stability is death. Growth by its nature is chaotic and has ups and downs, job creation and destruction. I hope on a personal level he is OK but I have no regrets in casting my ballot for the greatest long term good of this nation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    The Brexiteers still think they can get some sweet deal; that's what the markets hope for so it's likely they will not crash any further untill it becomes clear the EU is going to push the UK towards the door now. As that is the only sensible thing to do now.
    You still don't get it do you? You're not pushing us to the door, we're walking up to the door and opening it ourselves. There's a bright future outside, feel free to have a Nexit and follow us on the way out.
    By the way; congratulation on becoming the 6th largest economy in the world.
    For all of 15 minutes between 6:20am and 6:35am this morning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I love how quickly Rand's confidence in the market disappeared. Apparently, the market is all-knowing only as long as it agrees with you. This reminds me of the Maduros and Mugabes of the world.
    What lack of confidence in the market? The market has done EXACTLY what I said it would. An overreaction caused by fools (not experts) who will have lost money panicking followed by a recovery.

    FTSE is now not just above the level it was at the close of trade on Friday last week, it is above the level it was when Cameron called this referendum in February. Look at the big picture, FTSE is up not down no matter what some idiots soon parted with their money may have lost due to self-inflicted panic and overreactions. The market knows better.

    As for the GPBUSD cable, we're now 1 cent below what it was back in March. Not exactly earth shattering.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Tim Morgan Stanley have denied that: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7100911.html
    The rumour mill in overdrive ... even the BBC are getting caught up in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  18. #18
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    You know Randblade; in a way I pity you. You have voted for something with all of your conviction. But you lack the insight that you and people like you are the most likely to suffer the consequences.
    Congratulations America

  19. #19
    Shit. I booked my trip to London before the vote -- it's got to be cheaper now. I genuinely didn't think the Brits would exit. Wow.
    The Rules
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    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    The rumour mill in overdrive ... even the BBC are getting caught up in it.
    You know, you don't want your people to find out on the BBC news site. So the first thing you do if something like that leaks is deny it. You can deny everything as long as it's still in the planning stages.

    Talking of rumours; there is a rumour Commissioner Hill will be stripped of his portfolio early next week. That would remove the British influence over the regulation of the financial sector.
    Congratulations America

  21. #21
    Here's a question: if the UK is formally considered a member until it's fully withdrawn, is there any rule that, in theory, can prevent them from negotiating bilateral trade deals with third parties while they're still members?
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  22. #22
    Good question. I would expect planning for negotiations to have begun already and negotiations to start formally soon. The new deals could not start until we have exited but there's no reason you can't talk and make a deal beforehand. Generally with any contract or treaty there is a start date set where it comes into force anyway so that will just need to be set for post-Brexit.

    Ideally we will be in a position whereby a few new deals are negotiated, signed and ratified to start from the day that Brexit actually happens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    You know Randblade; in a way I pity you. You have voted for something with all of your conviction. But you lack the insight that you and people like you are the most likely to suffer the consequences.
    We are also the most likely to benefit if things go right. I'm an optimist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    You know Randblade; in a way I pity you. You have voted for something with all of your conviction. But you lack the insight that you and people like you are the most likely to suffer the consequences.
    No, people like him are the ones who will best be able to weather the storm. The older voters who also voted with him won't have to live with this decision for very long. It's the younger Brits you should pity.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  25. #25
    Because the EU has such a perfect record for young people? Try taking the mote out of your own eye ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Here's a question: if the UK is formally considered a member until it's fully withdrawn, is there any rule that, in theory, can prevent them from negotiating bilateral trade deals with third parties while they're still members?
    Yes, to attempt it though would most certainly be a notification as meant in article 50.
    Congratulations America

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    No, people like him are the ones who will best be able to weather the storm. The older voters who also voted with him won't have to live with this decision for very long. It's the younger Brits you should pity.
    Of course, but he's not that old. He's definately in the category that will pay dearly for the choice.
    Congratulations America

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    We are also the most likely to benefit if things go right. I'm an optimist.
    No, the people who are already benefitting are the people who pulled the wool over your eyes. The people who called telling the truth Project Fear.

    It won't happen, they won't do that. Well it is happening and they are doing it.
    Congratulations America

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Of course, but he's not that old. He's definately in the category that will pay dearly for the choice.
    Why?

    When Europe is growing slower than every continent other than Antartica?
    When every comparable western English speaking nation outside the EU has a GDP/capita at least as good as ours?
    When we are still the world's fifth largest economy? Despite myths to the contrary.

    Why can't we cope on our own?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #30
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    Let me give you a little bit of advice; before you re-use a Johnson quip, you should first check it it's true.
    Congratulations America

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