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Thread: Happy now BLM?

  1. #31
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    He knew what he was doing but I don't think everyone is going to have the same level of discernment and skill at reading a situation.
    He knew what he was doing because he'd been trained in how to deal with situations like that. He had training. He was trained.

    People who carry firearms as part of their day to day work need to be trained, and not just in marksmanship.
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  2. #32
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    There was a point before police started shooting where they weren't regularly losing their or their colleagues lives and weren't in danger in America? Please let me know when this point was in your eyes? When was the bed made?
    This problem didn't start with police shootings, Rand, or with fear of harm by the police. You're looking at the latest expression and pretending it is sui generis. This is not new. When did the problem start? It started with the "Great Migration" in the 1920s as black people left the South and rural areas and moved into the industrialized cities. It started with discrimination older than country and policing standards/assumptions which have not changed in all that time.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quite the opposite I think it is old, which is why it is a chicken and egg situation. Every police officer alive and on active duty today has always known such violence. Every black criminal alive today has always known such violence. This is a classic chicken and egg situation and I fail to see how a migration nearly a century ago was the Police making this bed ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    He knew what he was doing because he'd been trained in how to deal with situations like that. He had training. He was trained.

    People who carry firearms as part of their day to day work need to be trained, and not just in marksmanship.
    That's a high bar. I think the guy knew what he was doing due to his prior employment.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    That's a high bar. I think the guy knew what he was doing due to his prior employment.
    ..So it's a good bar to set for training for marines, to judge whether or not someone really has to be killed, in a war zone, not to alienate the local population, but when it comes to american cities just shoot em?
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  6. #36
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    That's a high bar. I think the guy knew what he was doing due to his prior employment.
    It's really not. Most countries that issue firearms to their officers give them such training, and I would not be surprised if many police forces in America do the same.
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
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  7. #37
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #38
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Quite the opposite I think it is old, which is why it is a chicken and egg situation. Every police officer alive and on active duty today has always known such violence. Every black criminal alive today has always known such violence. This is a classic chicken and egg situation and I fail to see how a migration nearly a century ago was the Police making this bed ...
    We're talking about the communities and their reaction to police action, both lawful and unlawful. Remember? Go take another look at that reply I wrote to Lewk which prompted your objection. You're going to sit there and claim that the African-American community inculcated the belief in the various police departments that their default response is to riot?
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  9. #39
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    I'm going to sit there and claim that "the African-American community"* has inculcated the belief in the various police departments that they are more violent and dangerous and self-defence is a bigger issue, yes absolutely. The Police are reacting to consistently the most violent criminal offenders in the nation, not just rioters.

    * I hate that phrase, its not a community, it's criminals who are African-American not the entire community that are the issue - just as its the bad eggs within the Police that are the issue too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #40
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7239291.html

    Officers ordered Frazier to get on the ground, to which he responded, “Leave me alone,” according to his nephew Quartaze Woodard. When order to the ground once more, Frazier gave them the same response. Police then opened fire, according to Mr Woodard.
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  11. #41
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Man, cops have been acting like shitheads towards innocent black people and terrorizing black communities since time immemorial. Moreover, there has, for decades, been a worrying trend among American cops towards using excessive and frequently lethal force against not only black people but people in general. But sure let's focus on how Black people are responsible for the racial prejudices and crappy training of American cops.
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  12. #42
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    It must really suck to be trying to defend the police in America.

    HEADLINE: American police fatally shoot black man unarmed black man because they thought he had a gun, but turned out to just be a cell phone

    "That's pretty sad, but there are a lot of guns and gun violence in America so you can hardly blame them for coming to the wrong conclusion"

    HEADLINE: American police fatally shoot unarmed black man with his hands in the air who was shouting "don't shoot me I'm unarmed"

    "Obviously, that's pretty terrible but it was just one officer"

    HEADLINE: American police walk past a black man's house and shoot him 12 times because dropped a spoon, and they thought it was a gunshot

    "When you think about it, aren't BLM the real racists?"

    HEADLINE: American police tase a black man who was putting out the garbage in front his home, then shot him, then his dog, then dynamite his house, then call in an air strike which levels the entire block, claiming they felt threatened

    "police have to put their lives on the line every day, you know"

    HEADLINE: American shoot disabled black man with no arms or legs in the face 35 times. they say he was reaching for a weapon.

    "Just a few bad apples"

    HEADLINE: American police conduct a spree killing through a shopping mall, shooting all the black men they can see

    "yeah, but what about black on black violence?"

    HEADLINE: American police shoot the entire black population of Florida, claiming they were resisting arrest

    "..."

    Like, at what point do you stop, revise your original position actually admit there's a problem?
    Last edited by Steely Glint; 09-16-2016 at 08:05 PM.
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  13. #43
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    You don't think it a little telling that he was shot in the face? Pretty sure he was reaching for it with his mouth. You shouldn't underestimate how dangerous that is. Limbless people are really fast with their heads, all it takes is a fraction of a second and bam an innocent police officer is dead.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  14. #44
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I'm going to sit there and claim that "the African-American community"* has inculcated the belief in the various police departments that they are more violent and dangerous and self-defence is a bigger issue, yes absolutely. The Police are reacting to consistently the most violent criminal offenders in the nation, not just rioters.

    * I hate that phrase, its not a community, it's criminals who are African-American not the entire community that are the issue - just as its the bad eggs within the Police that are the issue too.
    Rand, do everyone a favor and actually read the material someone is replying to before you think to interject. Lewk talked about, and I replied to, the COMMUNITY REACTION to police action in the black community. You want to post your stream of consciousness like GGT, go ahead, but don't try and couch it as a reply to me.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  15. #45
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Hope is the denial of reality

  16. #46
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Rand, do everyone a favor and actually read the material someone is replying to before you think to interject. Lewk talked about, and I replied to, the COMMUNITY REACTION to police action in the black community. You want to post your stream of consciousness like GGT, go ahead, but don't try and couch it as a reply to me.
    I understand that, however what I fail to understand is how you can take that in isolation from the context the Police are acting in. The actions of the Police is the one side of the coin, the violent community of criminals the Police deal with every day is the other. I don't understand how you can just take one side alone and view it as being uniquely responsible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #47
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I don't understand how you can just take one side alone and view it as being uniquely responsible.
    Because one "side" are criminals, and the other are fucking officers of the law armed and empowered by the state?

    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  18. #48
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I understand that, however what I fail to understand is how you can take that in isolation from the context the Police are acting in. The actions of the Police is the one side of the coin, the violent community of criminals the Police deal with every day is the other. I don't understand how you can just take one side alone and view it as being uniquely responsible.
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  19. #49
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Because one "side" are criminals, and the other are fucking officers of the law armed and empowered by the state?
    Who are armed and empowered because of the criminals and to deal with the criminals. That is their job. You want to isolate people doing their job (badly or otherwise) from that which they were employed to deal with, because they are employed to deal with it by the state?
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    If my students don't do their work, I shouldn't have to do my work. And of course I should get paid the same as before.
    Nobody is saying that. But your not doing your work is not a justification for your students not doing theirs, especially if your students aren't doing work in every other lecturers class too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #50
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You want to isolate people doing their job (badly or otherwise) from that which they were employed to deal with, because they are employed to deal with it by the state?
    No, I want them to, try and follow along here for this is quite a difficult concept, stop killing people.
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  21. #51
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    So do I. I also want, try and follow along here as this may also be quite a difficult concept, them to stop being killed themselves too. It's all rather Newtonian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #52
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    And where does shooting a guy trying to eat his dinner or beating up a Google manager fit into that?
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  23. #53
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    It doesn't. When did I defend that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #54
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    This is the behaviour BLM and everyone else in this thread is complaining about. Did you just admit everything you've been saying on this topic is actually just a massive derailment tactic?
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Man, cops have been acting like shitheads towards innocent black people and terrorizing black communities since time immemorial. Moreover, there has, for decades, been a worrying trend among American cops towards using excessive and frequently lethal force against not only black people but people in general. But sure let's focus on how Black people are responsible for the racial prejudices and crappy training of American cops.
    At least you admit it isn't solely based on race like most liberals. There have been bad police shoots that didn't involve minorities no cries of racism are sounded. Why is it whenever a minority individual is on the receiving end of a bad shoot the automatic assumption is racial bias?

  26. #56
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I understand that, however what I fail to understand is how you can take that in isolation from the context the Police are acting in. The actions of the Police is the one side of the coin, the violent community of criminals the Police deal with every day is the other. I don't understand how you can just take one side alone and view it as being uniquely responsible.
    Managing their relations with the community is part of their job. Dealing with those violent offenders and protecting the rest of the community from them is also part of their job. At every level of consideration wrt what leads to the community reactions, the responsibility is with the police. They are uniquely responsible because every single part of it is their literal area of responsibility.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Managing their relations with the community is part of their job. Dealing with those violent offenders and protecting the rest of the community from them is also part of their job. At every level of consideration wrt what leads to the community reactions, the responsibility is with the police. They are uniquely responsible because every single part of it is their literal area of responsibility.
    I'm confused by what you mean 'that is part of their job.' Because it is someone's job you can ignore the very real dangers and stressers inherit to the situation? Asking people to simply 'do their job' in places that regularly have shot outs with people who attack emergency vehicles (firefighters, ambulances) is pretty absurd. You can't ignore what difficulties the police just trying to 'do their job.'

  28. #58
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Managing their relations with the community is part of their job. Dealing with those violent offenders and protecting the rest of the community from them is also part of their job. At every level of consideration wrt what leads to the community reactions, the responsibility is with the police. They are uniquely responsible because every single part of it is their literal area of responsibility.
    Just because it is their area of responsibility job wise does not mean and never has meant they are uniquely responsible. That's like saying 9/11 and every other terrorist attack was uniquely the responsibility of the intelligence services because it is their responsibility to prevent terrorist attacks, that is their job, so therefore the terrorists are not at all responsible themselves

    Yes the Police are responsible, but so too are the criminals. Just because the Police have the job of dealing with them does not excise any responsibility from those that are committing crimes and creating a dangerous environment for the public and the Police. Again you need to look at the full picture not half of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #59
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    At least you admit it isn't solely based on race like most liberals. There have been bad police shoots that didn't involve minorities no cries of racism are sounded. Why is it whenever a minority individual is on the receiving end of a bad shoot the automatic assumption is racial bias?
    No liberals think that racism is the only problem with American cops. In fact, no human being thinks that. What kind of a bizarre fantasy world do you live in?
    Last edited by Aimless; 09-17-2016 at 01:23 PM.
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  30. #60
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    This is the behaviour BLM and everyone else in this thread is complaining about. Did you just admit everything you've been saying on this topic is actually just a massive derailment tactic?
    No my position the whole thread is that the whole picture needs looking at and that unacceptable behaviour needs tackling on all sides I've suggested mandatory body cams and abolishing the second amendment as part of that. Simply saying that the Police have too much of a justified reason to pull the trigger because of the very real grave danger they face does not mean they are always justified when they do.

    If a clearly unarmed man is gunned down then that should be dealt with properly. The problem is that in America too often it is not clear. In that last link of which I know too little to comment the relative who called the police said the man who ended up getting shot was armed. I wish we had body cams to know what happened next rather than just hearsay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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