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Thread: Happy now BLM?

  1. #721
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    That is a totally bogus approach to assessing risk to determine whether or not police behavior is justified. You should look at risk per police encounter. As it is, you're including infants and the institutionalized elderly in the numbers for civilians and ignoring the frequency of encounters.
    No you should not look at risk per encounter, that is totally bogus. The frequency of encounters is not an independent variable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #722
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    No you should not look at risk per encounter, that is totally bogus. The frequency of encounters is not an independent variable.
    In a discussion about whether or not a cop is justified in shooting to kill--out of fear for his life or the life of someone else--in any given encounter, it is absolutely appropriate to try to determine the risk in any given encounter.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  3. #723
    Trump says "NFL fans should boycott." Suddenly team owners are rebuking him. Surprise surprise, they don't appreciate POTUS telling the American public to wage economic warfare on them.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  4. #724
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Trump says "NFL fans should boycott." Suddenly team owners are rebuking him. Surprise surprise, they don't appreciate POTUS telling the American public to wage economic warfare on them.
    It's kinda annoying because a boycott had already been called because of the NFL's treatment of kaepernick.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  5. #725
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    In a discussion about whether or not a cop is justified in shooting to kill--out of fear for his life or the life of someone else--in any given encounter, it is absolutely appropriate to try to determine the risk in any given encounter.
    Except when looking at aggregate figures you're not looking at per encounter. An innocent black man who has one encounter per week would quite rightly feel harassed since that is OTT. A cop doesn't have one encounter with a member of the public per week they may have hundreds. Besides their encounters are also more dangerous since they're targeting [or should be] their encounters at lawbreakers, the guilty and the dangerous.

    If a cop were to deliberately and routinely stop innocent black people then let them go that would make his per-encounter odds of shooting a black person plummet but it would not make him a better cop, it would make him a worse one. It would not improve the lives of innocent black people, it would make it worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  6. #726
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    It's kinda annoying because a boycott had already been called because of the NFL's treatment of kaepernick.
    The biggest blow back so far is that freaking Dale Earnhardt Jr, a NASCAR driver, supports the peaceful protests. He may be considered a closet liberal and open moderate in an ultra-conservative sport, but he didn't even take this strong a position concerning the confederate flag. Earnhardt is perhaps the best example of how Trump continues to whittle away at his own support.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  7. #727
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  8. #728
    http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...or-free-speech

    When I became director of CIA, I kept my Steelers season tickets. It really wasn’t a hard choice. My wife and I and the security detail willingly braved the Pennsylvania Turnpike for the nine-hour round trip to Pittsburgh since, no matter what was going on in Washington, when we settled into our seats at Heinz Field all that mattered for three hours was what happened between those white lines. It’s been that way on fall Sundays for me for more than 60 years.

    Until Sunday, when the ugly side of American politics intruded into my fall eden. I blame some of that on Colin Kaepernick, the former San Francisco 49ers quarterback who last year began to protest social injustice and police brutality by sitting or taking a knee during the pre-game national anthem. His comments on America were a bit more dystopian than I thought was warranted, and I wasn’t enthusiastic about turning a unifying and celebratory moment for most Americans into a venue for protest.

    Still, this is a big country with a big heart and the issues he raised were both real and sincerely held. It didn't take much to just let this ride, even after some other NFL players joined in. Everything seemed to be within the tolerances of normal American political discourse and, certainly, American free speech.
    Until last Friday. And then President Trump, before a red-hot Alabama crowd of his political base, decided to treat the “SOBs” who wouldn't stand for the anthem the way he has previously treated other groups like Mexicans (murderers and rapists), intelligence professionals (Nazis), immigrants (deeply unfair), refugees (dangerous), and Muslims (they hate us).

    When in political stress, attack the “other” — those dark forces that allegedly threaten our way of life — and pay no attention to the lack of legislative progress on ObamaCare or anything else, a careening crisis with a nuclear North Korea, or the destruction of civilized life on an island territory of the United States.

    For extra measure, the president claimed that the NFL was ruining the game with recent rule changes to prevent or reduce player injury: “Today, if you hit too hard, 15 yards, throw him out of the game!” To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln, President Trump does not instinctively appeal to “the better angels of our nature.”

    The NFL — players, coaches, staff, ownership and league office — had to make decisions quickly. Sunday’s kickoffs were less that 40 hours away when the president walked off that stage in Huntsville. Nearly half of the NFL would be getting on planes in less than 12 hours.

    There were tough choices to make: respect for the flag, respect for the anthem, respect for your teammates, respect for justice, respect for your fans, respect for free speech. The president had created what logicians call a false dilemma, that support for free speech or for team mates equated to disrespect for flag, anthem or country. And he did it for political advantage.

    My Steelers rejected the false dilemma. They concentrated on unity and focus. They were in Chicago to play football. Head coach Mike Tomlin said, “We're not going to play politics. We're football players, we're football coaches. We're not participating in the anthem today, not to be disrespectful to the anthem, but to remove ourselves from the circumstance.”

    So the team did not go out onto the field for “The Star-Spangled Banner.” Several coaches (including Tomlin) did go out to represent the organization. Alejandro Villanueva — starting left tackle, West Point graduate, decorated Army ranger — broke consensus slightly to appear at the mouth of the runway with his hand over his heart, but several players have already said they understood Villanueva’s unique circumstances.

    Pittsburgh is a patriotic town. There was a lot of anger about the Steelers not showing up. But I believe that everyone on the Steelers did the right thing. They were dealt a bad hand and played it as best they could. Or, more accurately, they tried not to play.

    And the dealer here was President Trump. A week ago, a handful of NFL players protested in one form or another. On Sunday, three full teams did not go out for the anthem, almost all players and coaches locked arms, and more than 200 in the NFL knelt, sat or otherwise demonstrated their displeasure.

    And, to be specific, their displeasure was largely with President Trump and what he had said about them, their teammates and their rights. Forced again to defend the indefensible, White House spokesperson Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Monday said that the president’s Huntsville stand was about “honoring the men and women who fought to defend” the flag.

    As a 39-year military veteran, I think I know something about the flag, the anthem, patriotism, and I think I know why we fight. It’s not to allow the president to divide us by wrapping himself in the national banner. I never imagined myself saying this before Friday, but if now forced to choose in this dispute, put me down with Kaepernick.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  9. #729
    Well said!

    I think this part is worth quoting at the bottom of the article:

    Gen. Michael Hayden is a former director of the CIA and the National Security Agency.

    Between the General and the President I know where I stand. I don't stand I'd sit with the General and Kaepernick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #730
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I don't stand I'd sit with the General and Kaepernick.
    The crazy part is that Kaepernick sat multiple times before this blew up. Almost no one gave a shit. It was only after he had a discussion with a retired Green Beret, and the veteran suggested kneeling (to symbolize his reverence for those that paid the ultimate sacrifice while still allowing Colin to peacefully protest the injustices he saw) that the racists lost their god damn minds.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  11. #731
    Indeed sitting can be deemed as just uncouth and rude (cf the brilliant West Wing sketch about the Bible Basher that ends with him calling her out for sitting).

    Whereas kneeling is by respectful. Much more impactful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #732
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  13. #733
    http://journaltimes.com/news/local/r...19e2a6a60.html

    Those evil hateful leftists #freespeech #maga
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  14. #734
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  15. #735
    I'm sure our dedicated free speech warriors like Lewkowski and Valden Rath will be all over this, like they were for human refuse like Milo Whatshisface.

    Don't you worry about that.


    Aaaaaany second now.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  16. #736
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  17. #737
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    I'm sure our dedicated free speech warriors like Lewkowski and Valden Rath will be all over this, like they were for human refuse like Milo Whatshisface.

    Don't you worry about that.


    Aaaaaany second now.
    Don't see why VR would support this. If he doesn't show up to oppose it it's probably because he hasn't come across it and isn't here on the forum.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  18. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Nope. There's a case (I can't remember the name and my google-fu is failing me today), I believe from the '80s, about flag rules for high school athletes and it would apply for the anthem as well. State institutions cannot compel political speech, including symbolic speech. There is no maneuvering room, no opportunity for equivocation. It has no rational basis and it violates the fundamental concept behind the 1st amendment as well as its direct terms.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  19. #739
    Unless the ACLU or equivalent can get an injunction that won't particularly help a player dropped for a year or two while this travels through the courts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #740
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    To me it's honestly puzzling why you'd play the national anthem during a regular game between two teams for the country anyway.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  21. #741
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    To me it's honestly puzzling why you'd play the national anthem during a regular game between two teams for the country anyway.
    Virtue-signaling patriotism.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  22. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Unless the ACLU or equivalent can get an injunction that won't particularly help a player dropped for a year or two while this travels through the courts.
    Any lawyer can get an injunction until the initial ruling and as I said, there's really no room for equivocation here so even the lowest court's decision is fairly clear (whether a state court judge will actually follow the law is more open to question but there's no much you can say ahead of time about someone putting their own politics ahead of the law and constitution). As I said though, it is identical to flag issues and Aimless already brought the Pledge up and I pointed out that even the school administrators were backing the kids in those reports, rather than the overstepping teacher/aid.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  23. #743
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    I'm sure our dedicated free speech warriors like Lewkowski and Valden Rath will be all over this, like they were for human refuse like Milo Whatshisface.

    Don't you worry about that.


    Aaaaaany second now.
    I'm sure they would be - except this is hardly a major news story and I doubt they have heard about it. It certainly didn't get the national attention that Milo Whatshisface did.

  24. #744
    which is, frankly, bizarre.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  25. #745
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    which is, frankly, bizarre.
    The fact that this isn't a major news story or the fact that Milo Whatshisface was?

  26. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    The fact that this isn't a major news story or the fact that Milo Whatshisface was?
    The former. More and more schools all over the US are threatening to illegally punish students who choose to exercise their first amendment rights in a peaceful manner. This is alarming and important. It's also topical.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  27. #747
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  28. #748
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    The former. More and more schools all over the US are threatening to illegally punish students who choose to exercise their first amendment rights in a peaceful manner. This is alarming and important. It's also topical.
    Not that this isn't poor behavior on the part of the school corporation, but I think you'll find little in the way of surprise about school administrators behaving as petty tyrants. It certainly isn't anything new - I'm fairly certain we've discussed it in some depth on here before.

  29. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    The former. More and more schools all over the US are threatening to illegally punish students who choose to exercise their first amendment rights in a peaceful manner. This is alarming and important.
    It's actually incredibly common, you can always find examples. School administration is a classic home for the petty despot.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  30. #750
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    I'm sure our dedicated free speech warriors like Lewkowski and Valden Rath will be all over this, like they were for human refuse like Milo Whatshisface.

    Don't you worry about that.


    Aaaaaany second now.
    I missed this post somehow until Enoch quoted it but speaking personally as a "dedicated free speech warrior" although not one you named I absolutely back free speech here and have done all along. Like Enoch said I'm sure if Veldan was actively posting on the thread right now he would too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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