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Thread: Happy now BLM?

  1. #841
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    Hey look - more news about how BLM protests actually led to more black lives being lost.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/baltimo...-gray-killing/

    "Others blame police, accusing them of taking a hands-off approach to fighting crime since six officers were charged in connection with the 2015 death of Freddie Gray, a black man whose fatal spinal cord injury in police custody triggered massive protests that year and the city's worst riots in decades.

    "The conventional wisdom, or widely agreed upon speculation, suggests that the great increase in murders is happening partly because the police have withdrawn from aggressively addressing crime in the city's many poor, crime-ridden neighborhoods," said Donald Norris, professor emeritus of public policy at the University of Maryland Baltimore County."

  2. #842
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    I'm curious. How many of those fatal shootings in Baltimore were done by police in 2015 and 2017 respectively?
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  3. #843
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    I love it when people drag out some professor emeritus.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  4. #844
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    For anyone else it sounds entirely reasonable to quote a Professor Emeritus.

    For Lewkowski I wonder why he cares what some Ivy Tower Liberal thinks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
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  5. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    I'm curious. How many of those fatal shootings in Baltimore were done by police in 2015 and 2017 respectively?
    Well 7 deaths in MD according to Washington Post in 2017. Didn't see a city drill down and it only goes back to 2016. Not going to spend more time trying to google. Keep in mind that just because the police kill someone, doesn't mean its a bad thing either. Violent criminals who are attempting to use lethal force should be killed.

  6. #846
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    How many people were killed by British cops last year?

    We have 11 times MD's population.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    How many people were killed by British cops last year?

    We have 11 times MD's population.
    If you want to compare apples to oranges compare the number of British cops killed in the line of duty compared to the number of criminals killed by police. Look at that ratio and see how realistic or not it is.

    And then realize the UK is an island. It doesn't have a prous border to Mexico which is a quasi-narco state. And then realize that yes we do actually have millions of guns everywhere.

    Also the only statistic that would matter in my opinion is the number of *bad* shoots that occur. If 10,000 criminals are killed after pulling a gun on a police officer (or attempting to ram them with their vehicle, etc) I'm fully happy with all 10,000 criminals dying. Bad shoots are ones like this: https://nypost.com/2016/07/21/black-...lping-patient/ Clearly the cop fucked up, those encounters we want to minimize and try to eliminate.

  8. #848
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    I want to compare apples to apples.

    2017 was a bad year for British cops, worse than average. We lost PC Keith Palmer in a terrorist attack. So that's a total of 1 cop killed, 1 more than most years in the last decade
    As for those killed by British cops there was a higher than average 7 last year. 4 were terrorists (including the killer of PC Palmer). 3 non-terrorists were killed, 2 armed people were shot while one died without being shot.

    So despite having 11 times the population of Maryland we had the same number killed. That's including the fact the majority of ours killed were terrorists. As I don't believe any of those shot in MD were terrorists then factoring for population in MD there are 25 killings for each 1 here on a per capita basis.

    Regarding Maryland I'm wondering which quasi-narco state you reckon it borders? Are you referring to Pennsylvania? Or Virginia? Because Maryland doesn't have any border with Mexico let alone a porous one. In fact Maryland is nearly 2000 miles away by road from the Mexican border.

    Which just leaves guns as an explanation. Which is what I've been saying all along.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I want to compare apples to apples.

    2017 was a bad year for British cops, worse than average. We lost PC Keith Palmer in a terrorist attack. So that's a total of 1 cop killed, 1 more than most years in the last decade
    As for those killed by British cops there was a higher than average 7 last year. 4 were terrorists (including the killer of PC Palmer). 3 non-terrorists were killed, 2 armed people were shot while one died without being shot.

    So despite having 11 times the population of Maryland we had the same number killed. That's including the fact the majority of ours killed were terrorists. As I don't believe any of those shot in MD were terrorists then factoring for population in MD there are 25 killings for each 1 here on a per capita basis.

    Regarding Maryland I'm wondering which quasi-narco state you reckon it borders? Are you referring to Pennsylvania? Or Virginia? Because Maryland doesn't have any border with Mexico let alone a porous one. In fact Maryland is nearly 2000 miles away by road from the Mexican border.

    Which just leaves guns as an explanation. Which is what I've been saying all along.
    Mexico. You can travel freely between states. Hell most people travel across the freaken country just for a vacation.

  10. #850
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Hell most people travel across the freaken country just for a vacation.
    This is false. Over 60% of vacations are intrastate travel. Across country trips barely register as a stat. >90% of long distance trips are via personal vehicle and the median for that is under 200 miles.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 01-27-2018 at 03:37 AM.
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  11. #851
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Mexico. You can travel freely between states. Hell most people travel across the freaken country just for a vacation.
    America doesn't just have a border between Mexico and Maryland, it has nearly two thousand miles by road of its own territory between them too.

    America is responsible for America, not Mexico.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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  13. #853
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  14. #854
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    It's important to teach fiscally irresponsible thugs how to cross the street properly:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/u...black-man.html
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  15. #855
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Maybe these guys should instruct their peers all over the US in how not to kill people:

    http://www.wdrb.com/story/37848072/l...with-air-rifle
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  16. #856
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Notwithstanding the dubious claim about "exactly two" civilian casualties, this is a good piece by David French reiterating an important point about the training and discipline of US police:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...ine-restraint/

    See esp. the dicussion of "background risk".
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  17. #857
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Maybe these guys should instruct their peers all over the US in how not to kill people:

    http://www.wdrb.com/story/37848072/l...with-air-rifle
    Maybe they should.

    Are you pleased that the suspect didn't die or pissed off that he didn't?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  18. #858
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    I am inclined to believe the excuses offered by cops and by some people on this forum are bullshit.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  19. #859
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    Greetings, citizen! THE COMPUTER has made you a protector of the underground city of ALPHA COMPLEX. You will have lots of fun rooting out Communist mutant traitors. The Computer says so.

  20. #860
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #861
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Since this seems to be used in part as a Police megathread.

    Meanwhile in the UK: https://nypost.com/2018/04/10/cop-na...-a-prostitute/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #862
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Problem is that you can be shot even if you do not at any time hold anything. You just need to move wrong. And sometimes you even do not need to move.

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...of-kansas-man/

    The cop in question "feared for his life". Yeah. He had a scoped rifle, was in body armor, behind a car, on the other side of the street and the guy he shot had search lights pointed at him. If you then still fear for your life you shouldn't be a cop in the first place. One might also consider that the other cops who were closer to the victim did not open fire. Why? Because they were actually trained for this kind of situation. The gunhappy bastard? He was a guy from a different unit who wanted a piece of the action but whose training was on par with a beat cop. He had no business being there in the first place.
    Plus, it was an alleged hostage situation. This means that there were supposed to be at least two persons in the house, one of whom was not the hostage taker.

    I also find it interesting the fucking US Army has more stringent Rules of Engagement unless they're in an active combat zone.

    Then again, it's been made clear by the courts that the US cops are NOT supposed to protect the public, that's merely a happy side-effect if it happens. No, their line of questioning goes like this: "Was a cop hurt or killed? No? Then it doesn't matter what else happened." The line of "Protect and Serve"? Yeah. It's bullshit propaganda which has nothing to do with what is written in their handbooks or policies.
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  23. #863
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    That article neither says he "feared for his life" nor that the suspect "didn't move".

    I hope the moron who orchestrated this gets locked up for felony murder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #864
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That article neither says he "feared for his life" nor that the suspect "didn't move".

    I hope the moron who orchestrated this gets locked up for felony murder.
    Jesus, Rand, you really are incapable of a cogent thought, are you?

    From the fucking article:

    US law is deferential to the police in this kind of situation. Officers are permitted to use deadly force if they have a reasonable fear for their lives, and prosecutors rarely second-guess police judgments.
    You might also want to read the linked Wichita Eagle article.
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  25. #865
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That article neither says he "feared for his life" nor that the suspect "didn't move".

    The officer who shot Finch has not been identified. But District Attorney Marc Bennett said on Thursday that he saw Finch reaching toward his waistband and believed that he was reaching for a weapon.
    A reasonable interpretation is that the officer was arguing that he had cause to fear for his life or that of other innocent people nearby, eg. his fellow officers.

    He has said as much:

    “His hand starts to come up and that when I’m like okay he’s, he’s ‘gonna fire at officers,” the officer said. “I believe that I see a, a gun in his hand and as the, that’s being raised at the officers and at that point that’s when I decide to protect those officers and their lives and safety. I fire one round at this individual.”
    http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article208812519.html

    Now, in this particular instance, sure, it's most appropriate to blame the person who set up the hoax to begin with, and the person who solicited his help. But US cops have done similar things in similar situations--SWAT assault or the like on the homes of innocent people--even when they haven't been set up by someone else. Were they not so twitchy--and so accustomed to being able to kill people with impunity--I believe the likelihood of Finch dying in this incident would've been much lower, hoax or no hoax.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  26. #866
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Jesus, Rand, you really are incapable of a cogent thought, are you?

    From the fucking article:

    You might also want to read the linked Wichita Eagle article.
    Yes I am it seems you aren't. Aimless can comprehend the difference between simply fearing for his own life and fearing for the lives of others - are you incapable of comprehending that? His own location is secondary if he's acting to save others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #867
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Yes I am it seems you aren't. Aimless can comprehend the difference between simply fearing for his own life and fearing for the lives of others - are you incapable of comprehending that? His own location is secondary if he's acting to save others.
    No real reason to distinguish between the two. A cop fearing for his life will get the same free pass as one fearing for the lives of others.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  28. #868
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Considering that Khen emphasised he was behind a car on the other side of the street I think it matters who he was trying to protect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #869
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Considering that Khen emphasised he was behind a car on the other side of the street I think it matters who he was trying to protect.
    If you're hiding behind a car, or if the suspect is running away, you say you were fearing for other people. If you weren't hiding behind a car, you say you were fearing for your own life. Either way works. When necessary, you wax philosophical about exposing children to second-hand smoke.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  30. #870
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    A reasonable interpretation is that the officer was arguing that he had cause to fear for his life or that of other innocent people nearby, eg. his fellow officers.

    He has said as much:



    http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article208812519.html

    Now, in this particular instance, sure, it's most appropriate to blame the person who set up the hoax to begin with, and the person who solicited his help. But US cops have done similar things in similar situations--SWAT assault or the like on the homes of innocent people--even when they haven't been set up by someone else. Were they not so twitchy--and so accustomed to being able to kill people with impunity--I believe the likelihood of Finch dying in this incident would've been much lower, hoax or no hoax.
    It would be nice if they weren't so twitchy. In this case, even if the officer should be charged in a perfect world, I can get behind not doing so. Making certain the guy who set up the swatting gets nailed properly is going to involve making arguments which a defense lawyer for this cop will be able to use to secure an acquittal. And working hard to nail this guy despite that just might hand the swatting jackass' lawyer enough to get off too. This is a set of cases where the DA has to decide which person they want to convict more and I can agree with choosing to go after the swatter and letting the officer off due to lacking confidence in the ability to secure a conviction.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

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