People act on their perceptions, we're talking people here not cyborgs. Lowering perceived risk will lower actions if people are acting based on their perceptions.Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
People act on their perceptions, we're talking people here not cyborgs. Lowering perceived risk will lower actions if people are acting based on their perceptions.
http://m.heraldmailmedia.com/news/br...e6df6cdf9.html
Fuckers went to the RB-Lewkowski Police Academy for Fuckwits no doubt. Disturbing video.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Don't resist and you are less likely to get injured during the arrest. This should be basic logic and anyone incapable of following basic logic needs to be treated with the utmost caution because who knows what a crazy fool will do. Fifteen is old enough to make adult decisions (proof is they can be tried as adults) so that isn't an excuse. While the officers *may* have used more force than absolutely necessary she was the one who escalated the situation by not complying. In a civilized society resisting arrest should not be tolerated.
More likely the officers provoked a very strong fear reaction in her due to their lack of basic decency and were too fucking incompetent to know how to deal with the consequences like decent human beings. The spraying was unjustified and the bullshit about needing to take her to a hospital because of possible injuries was obviously a lie.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I can actually readily believe that it started out as a decision that she needed/was required to go to the hospital to be checked out. Once things escalated though, they obviously couldn't do that, they had to gain control of a situation they'd managed to create.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
If they were truly worried about a potentially life threatening injury there is no reason why they couldn't take her straight to the hospital for an assessment. If necessary they could restrain her far better and more safely at a hospital, with better supervision. It's possible things are different in the US wrt rules, but it is a common enough occurrence here that I've gotten to know--superficially--a number of the cops who work in my town from their visits to the ER with all sorts of "unmanageable" people.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/9108/w...prestigiacomo#
"“With that said, that day that I shot myself, the police…came through there; they knocked the doors down; I was on the floor; they hopped over me, looking for the drugs,” said Wayne. “It was a white police that ran up and stopped, and said, ‘What the f*ck are ya’ll doing? Do you not see this baby on the floor?’”
“He picked me up, bought me to the hospital himself. He was white," said Wayne. "
Remind me which part of the constitution or our legal system says the punishment for non-violently resisting arrest is punishable by death.
Hope is the denial of reality
The imaginary part you think I'm quoting? Hell if I know. if you resist arrest there are only a few possible options.
1. Mentally impaired either medically or because you took something
2. Dangerous levels of idiocy
3. A wanted criminal
Resisting arrest should immediately ratchet up the suspicion of the officer and put them on their guard. In each case you have something on your hands that is a clear and present danger to society at large.
In point of fact, the police do not actually have the authority to use force to just detain you at will. They have to actually be arresting you to gain the authority to forcibly detain you and consequently for you to potentially be resisting arrest, and they weren't initially arresting the girl when the altercation turned physical. They didn't decide to arrest her until afterward, to cover their asses. Before that they were just using force to try and make her do what they had decided she ought to do.
It's not wise to resist the police regardless of whether they're arresting you or not, as several posted stories regarding people who try to intervene make clear, because they have a lot more power available to them in such instances than you do, but that doesn't mean they have legitimate authority to use that power which means if you want to be unwise, that's entirely your right and cannot be any sort of legitimate cause for suspicion.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Ditto. The same people who think everyone should have a gun think it's ok for the police to shoot any black man who might be carrying one.
Hope is the denial of reality
Nope.
Says the person who thinks a cop feeling threatened, even if there's no objective reason for that belief, is sufficient for them to shoot someone.
Hope is the denial of reality
Says the person who likes to gripe about the issue but doesn't propose solutions.
The solution is for the US police to start acting like they're police force of a first world country, rather than an out of control third world militia.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
The solution to fraud is for people to stop doing fraud. The solution for obesity is for people to stop eating more calories than they burn. The solution to bullying is for people to stop bullying. Golly if only people would just do it!
What is being asked is what are the specific policies that folks like you, Loki and Aimless want to have in place to prevent bad shoots.
And the reason this is funny is because that's exactly the attitude you have whenever the conversation is about crime, and some starving orphan stole a loaf of bread or something and you're doing your subsequent internet tough guy 'theft is theft and criminals should all be executed as a deterrent, look at me I'm so damn tough etc etc' routine.
It's funny how quickly your tone changes when it's people you identify with who are fucking up, isn't it? It's almost like only middle class white people are allowed to have a context or something.
What Loki said. And what Ominous Gamer said several pages ago. And what is perfectly obvious to anyone who thinks about it. Better training for cops, including descalation training, actually convict and punish or at least fire police who break the rules, have cops wear body games and make the footage publicly available. It's not that difficult, it requires only that police departments accept that there actually is a problem, and it's their fault. Which some are and some aren't.What is being asked is what are the specific policies that folks like you, Loki and Aimless want to have in place to prevent bad shoots.
They also might what to take a look at the way some of them conduct themselves when they do carry out stop and searches. I've seen some videos of incidents involve black men which didn't involve anyone getting shot, but holy shit the police do not come out of those exchanges looking good, especially when it transpires that they had the wrong person and where essentially just hassling someone for no reason. Like, some basic manners wouldn't go amiss.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
You want a fix? Stop endorsing any death if you think the person somehow deserved it. The first step is changing the culture to one that actually values life rather than celebrating death and you're at the heart of those effectively encouraging these excesses. They are the natural consequence of attitudes like yours.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
What is it with these cops.
Lewk, I take it you don't criticize lone wolf terrorism since there's very little that can be done to stop it?
As for some obvious solutions to this other than mandatory body cameras and requirements to immediately release all footage? Fire cops after disciplinary infractions. It sounds silly, but it never happens. And we know that a vast majority of death by cop happens at the hands of cops with multiple infractions on their record. Discourage police departments from hiring cops who were fired from other departments. Charge cops who engage in violent behavior with civil rights violations. Encourage DAs to charge "bad cops" with crimes more frequently, even if grand juries continue to pretend it's still 1960s Mississippi. Mandate better arms training and retraining on a regular basis. Hold entire departments accountable for bad behavior from their members. Encourage community policing, which has been shown to sharply reduce bad behavior by cops.
Not that I expect most of those policies to be implemented, as they have to be done at the local level, where support for corrupt cops is at the greatest, but let's not pretend this is a problem without a solution.
Last edited by Loki; 09-24-2016 at 05:42 PM.
Hope is the denial of reality
So lets get specific.
Firing cops for disciplinary issues. I can get behind this - where do you want the enforcement of this? You mention local level so are you suggesting local mayor's office go about legislating stricter rules for officers. Do you know what problem with this? Unions.
In regards to discouraging departments from hiring cops who had discipline issues elsewhere... I could see that turning ugly quick. One person's 'disciplinary' issue could actually be retaliation for doing the right thing and reporting on another cop. Wells Fargo (in a completely different industry yes) just had a story break about several individuals who appropriately used an ethics hotline and were fired for it. I'm not sure this is a good step.
Charging cops for civil rights violations? I'd like more details on who do you think should be bringing those charges and specifically in what scenarios.
Encouraging DAs to charge 'bad cops' with crimes - I can totally get behind this. Again though, that's for the individual voters to decide. Or are you suggesting DAs be replaced by a federal oversight agency? State agency?
Mandating better arms training seems like a good start though I have no idea what the required arms training actually is or knowledge enough to know if it would be sufficient.
Holding entire departments accountable for bad behavior from their members seems odd. Collective guilt doesn't make sense in almost all cases and then again... you have the union problem. I'm wondering if you think police unions (and other governmental worker unions) should simply not exist so you don't run into the problem. I don't want to put words in your mouth so I'll ask - is that a position you support?
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Surprised those cops weren't fired. Oh, wait
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0e80b1ba22256
All sorts of isolated incidents mentioned there.
Hope is the denial of reality
I like links too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdDc...be&app=desktop
I think it's important to remember that US police departments aren't just cheered on by members of the public that are like Lewkowski--they are full of police officers that are like Lewkowski. Whereas Lewk is anonymous and careful to not engage in overt racism, these officers proudly display their lack of basic decency both on duty and off, irl. and on social media. They are inveterate shitbags and I'm not sure you can teach these people. You might be able to get them to snitch on, punish or fire their own kind, but it's not likely. What you can do however is start working on recruiting better people and training them well enough that the next generation of cops doesn't end up being full of shitbags.
I'm a little ambivalent about the role of punishment in these matters, at least when it comes to things that can legitimately be seen as symptoms of systemic failures eg. of training or lack of guidance and experience. That can encourage cops to try to cover up fuckups and problems instead of learning to do better.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
https://twitter.com/TheInsaneRobin
Start with the tweet 12 hours back (regarding student). Another isolated incident.
Hope is the denial of reality
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/29/us...ing/index.html
I'd forgotten about this
Wonder if there'll be any negative consequences for the police.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Utterly tragic
Silver lining, I'm glad to see that in this instance a body cam was used which has allowed us to know what happened and action is now being taken using the body cam as evidence. As I've advocated should be standard all thread. Nobody in the 21st century should need a gun who doesn't also need a camera. No camera, no gun - simple.
That father should be in prison for felony homicide.
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