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    Default Happy now BLM?

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-blac...ack-1473631079

    "In 2016 nearly 3,000 people have been shot in the city, an average of one victim every two hours."

    Do black lives only matter in police shootings?

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    http://ijr.com/2016/09/685151-after-...t-2015-totals/

    "The rise in gang-related violence could be attributed to increased timidity among police forces around the country in the wake of multiple high-profile "police brutality" cases. These incidents sparked a wave of protests and riots in Baltimore, New York, Ferguson, Milwaukee, and elsewhere.

    The anti-law enforcement sentiment swept up by these riots has led to multiple murders of police, including NYPD officers Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu, as well as the "Dallas Five," who were gunned down by a man who, according to Dallas Police Chief David Brown, said he wanted to kill white police officers.

    Independent Journal Review spoke with Heather Mac Donald, author of "The War on Cops," and fellow at the Manhattan Institute, about the issue.

    Mac Donald noted that the primary factor contributing to the spike in Chicago's violent crime rate is that "cops are backing off of proactive policing, and criminals are becoming emboldened."

    "Pedestrian stops are down about 90% in Chicago. As the police union head told me last month, cops are just not 'clearing the corners' anymore. Out of those groups of youth hanging out, loitering, often emerges drive-by shootings and other forms of gang violence.""

  3. #3
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    If only there was a way to police neighborhoods without shooting every remotely threatening black person.
    Hope is the denial of reality

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    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    If only there was a way to police neighborhoods without shooting every remotely threatening black person.
    I believe you will find it is a feature, not a bug!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

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    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    If only there was a way to police neighborhoods without shooting every remotely threatening black person.
    If only there was a way for you not to make egregiously overdramatic remarks.

    If every remotely threatening black person was shot there'd be little to no shootings next year as they'd have all been shot already
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    And as you know it's very easy for a black person to go from being threatening to non threatening. Wear a hoodie, become a teenager, develop mental illness, go outside the house etc
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    The title should be, "Happy now, incompetent cops?"
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Nonsense. There are enough black people and few enough cops and a large enough area to cover that they'd be able to keep it up for years depending on how good the precinct coffee is.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  9. #9
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Yes I'm sure the people who have shot the 3000 victims this year had never left the house, owned no hoodies, had no mental illnesses and were pre-teenage last year
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #10
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Yes I'm sure the people who have shot the 3000 victims this year had never left the house, owned no hoodies, had no mental illnesses and were pre-teenage last year
    That was in response to you implying that we'd run out of threatening black people.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

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    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Which was in response to the claim "every" one was shot. I put a caveat and said "little to no" ... new arrivals to being threatening would fall under the little.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #12
    That's no moon. EyeKhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-blac...ack-1473631079

    "In 2016 nearly 3,000 people have been shot in the city, an average of one victim every two hours."

    Do black lives only matter in police shootings?
    LOL, I thought your title was referring to Bureau of Land Management... sigh....

    I think the thrust of the Black Lives Matter complaint is that black people aren't safe from the police, the institution that's supposed to protect all of us from criminals. We all expect gang members fighting over turf to shoot each other, and for local innocents to get caught in the cross-fire, but nobody should expect to be shot by police in a traffic stop. Arguably its easier to get police forces to stop shooting black people who clearly are not a threat than it is to get gangsters to stop shooting each other. Once the police can be trusted more, maybe there can be more cooperation from the black community to deal with the drug violence more effectively.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    LOL, I thought your title was referring to Bureau of Land Management... sigh....

    I think the thrust of the Black Lives Matter complaint is that black people aren't safe from the police, the institution that's supposed to protect all of us from criminals. We all expect gang members fighting over turf to shoot each other, and for local innocents to get caught in the cross-fire, but nobody should expect to be shot by police in a traffic stop. Arguably its easier to get police forces to stop shooting black people who clearly are not a threat than it is to get gangsters to stop shooting each other. Once the police can be trusted more, maybe there can be more cooperation from the black community to deal with the drug violence more effectively.
    The slogan is Black Lives Matter. Its clearly a protest about police but if you look at the broader picture the protests actually have probably led to more black people being dead than if they had never protested at all.

  14. #14
    That's no moon. EyeKhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    The slogan is Black Lives Matter. Its clearly a protest about police but if you look at the broader picture the protests actually have probably led to more black people being dead than if they had never protested at all.
    I think the point of the movement is to get police officers to stop shooting black people for no just reason. Whether it has also resulted in police officers to pull back from law enforcement in majority black neighborhoods - resulting in unchecked gang violence - and whether that result is a punitive reaction by police, is a separate issue. Though I agree it is an issue that needs to be addressed. I think the bigger picture is that policing in black communities needs to function properly -- meaning no shooting people for no just reason, while at the same time enforcing the law. Do you believe that is unreasonable?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    I think the point of the movement is to get police officers to stop shooting black people for no just reason. Whether it has also resulted in police officers to pull back from law enforcement in majority black neighborhoods - resulting in unchecked gang violence - and whether that result is a punitive reaction by police, is a separate issue. Though I agree it is an issue that needs to be addressed. I think the bigger picture is that policing in black communities needs to function properly -- meaning no shooting people for no just reason, while at the same time enforcing the law. Do you believe that is unreasonable?
    There are different types of police shootings.

    1. Completely justified police shootings
    2. Police shootings where not a lot of information is known
    3. Police shootings that were questionable - reasonable people can view it one way or another
    4. Obviously bad/unethical police work

    The problem is that ANY of these types of examples lead to violence and rioting. Such as the Milwaukee riots recently where there is no doubt that it was a good shot. This creates an atmosphere among the police of "well shit... even if we do our jobs properly we are still going to get in trouble." Is it any wonder they don't want to go into a no-win situation for them? We're already asking them to risk their lives dealing with the criminal scum of humanity, when they do their jobs properly they still get hounded? Insane. Pulling back from the communities that cry 'racism' and 'police abuse' regardless of the actual presence of racism and abuse is only logical.

    Solutions to the problems of police abuse is body cameras. Vigilant prosecution of CLEAR bad actors and COMPLETE 100% support of the police officers who do their job properly. Right now police officers are under fire (in a very literal sense - assassinations in Dallas and elsewhere) receive little public support and get media vilification.

    Their pullback has caused death and property damage and that is very sad but in the long run the pros may outweigh the cons since the community will realize that the criminal element in their community is far far more dangerous to them than any police force.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    There are different types of police shootings.

    1. Completely justified police shootings
    2. Police shootings where not a lot of information is known
    3. Police shootings that were questionable - reasonable people can view it one way or another
    4. Obviously bad/unethical police work

    The problem is that ANY of these types of examples lead to violence and rioting.
    No, the problem is that 3 & 4 have historically occurred way too often to black people and, until recently, incidents have traditionally been covered up, ignored or otherwise unaddressed by local governments. It's only since the videos, protests and riots that local governments have even acknowledged that these things have been happening and the wider US community has even believed there was a problem. This problem has to be demonstrably fixed first in order to foster a level of trust between black communities and local police, then crime issues can be more effectively addressed.
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    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    There are different types of police shootings.

    1. Completely justified police shootings
    2. Police shootings where not a lot of information is known
    3. Police shootings that were questionable - reasonable people can view it one way or another
    4. Obviously bad/unethical police work

    The problem is that ANY of these types of examples lead to violence and rioting.
    The only reason all of them can sometimes lead to such a result is because #3 & #4 are so wearily familiar in these communities. There is no benefit of the doubt accorded to the police because it is demonstrated every day that they don't deserve it. They've forfeited these communities trust.

    Such as the Milwaukee riots recently where there is no doubt that it was a good shot. This creates an atmosphere among the police of "well shit... even if we do our jobs properly we are still going to get in trouble."
    This is not a chicken and the egg situation. The police are the ones that made this bed.

    Solutions to the problems of police abuse is body cameras. Vigilant prosecution of CLEAR bad actors and COMPLETE 100% support of the police officers who do their job properly.
    That would be nice. But it mostly doesn't happen. It CERTAINLY happens less often, proportionally, to the police getting attacked for what were actually lawful AND reasonable actions.

    Their pullback has caused death and property damage and that is very sad but in the long run the pros may outweigh the cons since the community will realize that the criminal element in their community is far far more dangerous to them than any police force.
    I wouldn't be so sure. The guardians actually have to be held to a higher standard than the lawless elements they guard against.
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    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    And the problem is that 3 and 4 are often presented as 1, with the police working against the investigation. Their concern should be justice/truth, not covering their own asses. Oh and because of this, 1 will also be protested against, because people don't trust the police when they say it was justified. Police who cried wolf, something like that.
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  20. #20
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Christ. What shitheads.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Christ. What shitheads.
    That's a difficult situation the right call probably would have been to shoot the guy - if a guy is waving his gun around, is suicidal how likely would it be for it to go off and kill someone? Like I said tough call, the officer in question is clearly an amazing individual who analyzed the situation perfectly and made the right call. He knew what he was doing but I don't think everyone is going to have the same level of discernment and skill at reading a situation. As a citizen I'd much rather have the crazy guy waving a gun acting suicidal put down than him be a risk to others.

    Firing him seems really stupid though.

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    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    He knew what he was doing but I don't think everyone is going to have the same level of discernment and skill at reading a situation.
    He knew what he was doing because he'd been trained in how to deal with situations like that. He had training. He was trained.

    People who carry firearms as part of their day to day work need to be trained, and not just in marksmanship.
    The walls are coming down.
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    What if we crumble, what if we fall? Where's the flame that torch the soul?
    Truth, when spoken, dies down to nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    He knew what he was doing because he'd been trained in how to deal with situations like that. He had training. He was trained.

    People who carry firearms as part of their day to day work need to be trained, and not just in marksmanship.
    That's a high bar. I think the guy knew what he was doing due to his prior employment.

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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    What's hilarious and tragic is that some cops oppose the use of bodycams, sometimes collectively:

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/loc...n_body_cameras

    Of course, even when you have to wear a bodycam, there's nothing to stop it from malfunctioning or being turned off at opportune moments.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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    That's no moon. EyeKhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    What's hilarious and tragic is that some cops oppose the use of bodycams, sometimes collectively:

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/loc...n_body_cameras

    Of course, even when you have to wear a bodycam, there's nothing to stop it from malfunctioning or being turned off at opportune moments.
    I wouldn't want to wear a body cam at work with the video available for authorities to examine whenever they want. But of course, my job doesn't entail the power and authority to kill people either.
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    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quite the opposite I think it is old, which is why it is a chicken and egg situation. Every police officer alive and on active duty today has always known such violence. Every black criminal alive today has always known such violence. This is a classic chicken and egg situation and I fail to see how a migration nearly a century ago was the Police making this bed ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #27
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Quite the opposite I think it is old, which is why it is a chicken and egg situation. Every police officer alive and on active duty today has always known such violence. Every black criminal alive today has always known such violence. This is a classic chicken and egg situation and I fail to see how a migration nearly a century ago was the Police making this bed ...
    We're talking about the communities and their reaction to police action, both lawful and unlawful. Remember? Go take another look at that reply I wrote to Lewk which prompted your objection. You're going to sit there and claim that the African-American community inculcated the belief in the various police departments that their default response is to riot?
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  28. #28
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #29
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    I'm going to sit there and claim that "the African-American community"* has inculcated the belief in the various police departments that they are more violent and dangerous and self-defence is a bigger issue, yes absolutely. The Police are reacting to consistently the most violent criminal offenders in the nation, not just rioters.

    * I hate that phrase, its not a community, it's criminals who are African-American not the entire community that are the issue - just as its the bad eggs within the Police that are the issue too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #30
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I'm going to sit there and claim that "the African-American community"* has inculcated the belief in the various police departments that they are more violent and dangerous and self-defence is a bigger issue, yes absolutely. The Police are reacting to consistently the most violent criminal offenders in the nation, not just rioters.

    * I hate that phrase, its not a community, it's criminals who are African-American not the entire community that are the issue - just as its the bad eggs within the Police that are the issue too.
    Rand, do everyone a favor and actually read the material someone is replying to before you think to interject. Lewk talked about, and I replied to, the COMMUNITY REACTION to police action in the black community. You want to post your stream of consciousness like GGT, go ahead, but don't try and couch it as a reply to me.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

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