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Thread: Happy now BLM?

  1. #1
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    Default Happy now BLM?

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-blac...ack-1473631079

    "In 2016 nearly 3,000 people have been shot in the city, an average of one victim every two hours."

    Do black lives only matter in police shootings?

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    http://ijr.com/2016/09/685151-after-...t-2015-totals/

    "The rise in gang-related violence could be attributed to increased timidity among police forces around the country in the wake of multiple high-profile "police brutality" cases. These incidents sparked a wave of protests and riots in Baltimore, New York, Ferguson, Milwaukee, and elsewhere.

    The anti-law enforcement sentiment swept up by these riots has led to multiple murders of police, including NYPD officers Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu, as well as the "Dallas Five," who were gunned down by a man who, according to Dallas Police Chief David Brown, said he wanted to kill white police officers.

    Independent Journal Review spoke with Heather Mac Donald, author of "The War on Cops," and fellow at the Manhattan Institute, about the issue.

    Mac Donald noted that the primary factor contributing to the spike in Chicago's violent crime rate is that "cops are backing off of proactive policing, and criminals are becoming emboldened."

    "Pedestrian stops are down about 90% in Chicago. As the police union head told me last month, cops are just not 'clearing the corners' anymore. Out of those groups of youth hanging out, loitering, often emerges drive-by shootings and other forms of gang violence.""

  3. #3
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    If only there was a way to police neighborhoods without shooting every remotely threatening black person.
    Hope is the denial of reality

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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    The title should be, "Happy now, incompetent cops?"
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    Nihilist Nessus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    If only there was a way to police neighborhoods without shooting every remotely threatening black person.
    I believe you will find it is a feature, not a bug!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
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    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    If only there was a way to police neighborhoods without shooting every remotely threatening black person.
    If only there was a way for you not to make egregiously overdramatic remarks.

    If every remotely threatening black person was shot there'd be little to no shootings next year as they'd have all been shot already
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Nonsense. There are enough black people and few enough cops and a large enough area to cover that they'd be able to keep it up for years depending on how good the precinct coffee is.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    And as you know it's very easy for a black person to go from being threatening to non threatening. Wear a hoodie, become a teenager, develop mental illness, go outside the house etc
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  9. #9
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Yes I'm sure the people who have shot the 3000 victims this year had never left the house, owned no hoodies, had no mental illnesses and were pre-teenage last year
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #10
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Yes I'm sure the people who have shot the 3000 victims this year had never left the house, owned no hoodies, had no mental illnesses and were pre-teenage last year
    That was in response to you implying that we'd run out of threatening black people.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Which was in response to the claim "every" one was shot. I put a caveat and said "little to no" ... new arrivals to being threatening would fall under the little.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #12
    That's no moon. EyeKhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-blac...ack-1473631079

    "In 2016 nearly 3,000 people have been shot in the city, an average of one victim every two hours."

    Do black lives only matter in police shootings?
    LOL, I thought your title was referring to Bureau of Land Management... sigh....

    I think the thrust of the Black Lives Matter complaint is that black people aren't safe from the police, the institution that's supposed to protect all of us from criminals. We all expect gang members fighting over turf to shoot each other, and for local innocents to get caught in the cross-fire, but nobody should expect to be shot by police in a traffic stop. Arguably its easier to get police forces to stop shooting black people who clearly are not a threat than it is to get gangsters to stop shooting each other. Once the police can be trusted more, maybe there can be more cooperation from the black community to deal with the drug violence more effectively.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    LOL, I thought your title was referring to Bureau of Land Management... sigh....

    I think the thrust of the Black Lives Matter complaint is that black people aren't safe from the police, the institution that's supposed to protect all of us from criminals. We all expect gang members fighting over turf to shoot each other, and for local innocents to get caught in the cross-fire, but nobody should expect to be shot by police in a traffic stop. Arguably its easier to get police forces to stop shooting black people who clearly are not a threat than it is to get gangsters to stop shooting each other. Once the police can be trusted more, maybe there can be more cooperation from the black community to deal with the drug violence more effectively.
    The slogan is Black Lives Matter. Its clearly a protest about police but if you look at the broader picture the protests actually have probably led to more black people being dead than if they had never protested at all.

  14. #14
    That's no moon. EyeKhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    The slogan is Black Lives Matter. Its clearly a protest about police but if you look at the broader picture the protests actually have probably led to more black people being dead than if they had never protested at all.
    I think the point of the movement is to get police officers to stop shooting black people for no just reason. Whether it has also resulted in police officers to pull back from law enforcement in majority black neighborhoods - resulting in unchecked gang violence - and whether that result is a punitive reaction by police, is a separate issue. Though I agree it is an issue that needs to be addressed. I think the bigger picture is that policing in black communities needs to function properly -- meaning no shooting people for no just reason, while at the same time enforcing the law. Do you believe that is unreasonable?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    I think the point of the movement is to get police officers to stop shooting black people for no just reason. Whether it has also resulted in police officers to pull back from law enforcement in majority black neighborhoods - resulting in unchecked gang violence - and whether that result is a punitive reaction by police, is a separate issue. Though I agree it is an issue that needs to be addressed. I think the bigger picture is that policing in black communities needs to function properly -- meaning no shooting people for no just reason, while at the same time enforcing the law. Do you believe that is unreasonable?
    There are different types of police shootings.

    1. Completely justified police shootings
    2. Police shootings where not a lot of information is known
    3. Police shootings that were questionable - reasonable people can view it one way or another
    4. Obviously bad/unethical police work

    The problem is that ANY of these types of examples lead to violence and rioting. Such as the Milwaukee riots recently where there is no doubt that it was a good shot. This creates an atmosphere among the police of "well shit... even if we do our jobs properly we are still going to get in trouble." Is it any wonder they don't want to go into a no-win situation for them? We're already asking them to risk their lives dealing with the criminal scum of humanity, when they do their jobs properly they still get hounded? Insane. Pulling back from the communities that cry 'racism' and 'police abuse' regardless of the actual presence of racism and abuse is only logical.

    Solutions to the problems of police abuse is body cameras. Vigilant prosecution of CLEAR bad actors and COMPLETE 100% support of the police officers who do their job properly. Right now police officers are under fire (in a very literal sense - assassinations in Dallas and elsewhere) receive little public support and get media vilification.

    Their pullback has caused death and property damage and that is very sad but in the long run the pros may outweigh the cons since the community will realize that the criminal element in their community is far far more dangerous to them than any police force.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    There are different types of police shootings.

    1. Completely justified police shootings
    2. Police shootings where not a lot of information is known
    3. Police shootings that were questionable - reasonable people can view it one way or another
    4. Obviously bad/unethical police work

    The problem is that ANY of these types of examples lead to violence and rioting.
    No, the problem is that 3 & 4 have historically occurred way too often to black people and, until recently, incidents have traditionally been covered up, ignored or otherwise unaddressed by local governments. It's only since the videos, protests and riots that local governments have even acknowledged that these things have been happening and the wider US community has even believed there was a problem. This problem has to be demonstrably fixed first in order to foster a level of trust between black communities and local police, then crime issues can be more effectively addressed.
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    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    And the problem is that 3 and 4 are often presented as 1, with the police working against the investigation. Their concern should be justice/truth, not covering their own asses. Oh and because of this, 1 will also be protested against, because people don't trust the police when they say it was justified. Police who cried wolf, something like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    No, the problem is that 3 & 4 have historically occurred way too often to black people and, until recently, incidents have traditionally been covered up, ignored or otherwise unaddressed by local governments. It's only since the videos, protests and riots that local governments have even acknowledged that these things have been happening and the wider US community has even believed there was a problem. This problem has to be demonstrably fixed first in order to foster a level of trust between black communities and local police, then crime issues can be more effectively addressed.
    So the problem needs to be 'demonstrably fixed' (good luck with that criteria which means something different to everyone) before we can police communities? What exactly are you suggesting the police do right now when it comes to the crime waves that are occurring? Continue the hands off approach for fear of being blasted by the media blamed for clean shots etc? Or do you want them to get back into the job of saving lives? Are you saying that they should wait to re-engage those crime hot spots until the problem has been 'demonstrably fixed'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    There are different types of police shootings.

    1. Completely justified police shootings
    2. Police shootings where not a lot of information is known
    3. Police shootings that were questionable - reasonable people can view it one way or another
    4. Obviously bad/unethical police work

    The problem is that ANY of these types of examples lead to violence and rioting.
    The only reason all of them can sometimes lead to such a result is because #3 & #4 are so wearily familiar in these communities. There is no benefit of the doubt accorded to the police because it is demonstrated every day that they don't deserve it. They've forfeited these communities trust.

    Such as the Milwaukee riots recently where there is no doubt that it was a good shot. This creates an atmosphere among the police of "well shit... even if we do our jobs properly we are still going to get in trouble."
    This is not a chicken and the egg situation. The police are the ones that made this bed.

    Solutions to the problems of police abuse is body cameras. Vigilant prosecution of CLEAR bad actors and COMPLETE 100% support of the police officers who do their job properly.
    That would be nice. But it mostly doesn't happen. It CERTAINLY happens less often, proportionally, to the police getting attacked for what were actually lawful AND reasonable actions.

    Their pullback has caused death and property damage and that is very sad but in the long run the pros may outweigh the cons since the community will realize that the criminal element in their community is far far more dangerous to them than any police force.
    I wouldn't be so sure. The guardians actually have to be held to a higher standard than the lawless elements they guard against.
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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Christ. What shitheads.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    So the problem needs to be 'demonstrably fixed' (good luck with that criteria which means something different to everyone) before we can police communities?
    No, that's not what I said. Police should be doing law enforcement right now, regardless of community mis-trust. They might be pissed off, afraid, demoralized, freaked out, whatever, but they have to do their job anyway. It sucks right now, but it's their duty - and this is the bed they made for themselves by letting their bad apple fuck-ups go unaddressed.

    At the same time they should stop killing innocent people and covering it up, and when they do kill people they should investigate objectively and be open and honest about the facts of what happened. Eventually they'll build some level of trust and then the community will work with them more readily to fight local crime. Their job will get easier.
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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    What's hilarious and tragic is that some cops oppose the use of bodycams, sometimes collectively:

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/loc...n_body_cameras

    Of course, even when you have to wear a bodycam, there's nothing to stop it from malfunctioning or being turned off at opportune moments.
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    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    This is not a chicken and the egg situation. The police are the ones that made this bed.
    There was a point before police started shooting where they weren't regularly losing their or their colleagues lives and weren't in danger in America? Please let me know when this point was in your eyes? When was the bed made?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    What's hilarious and tragic is that some cops oppose the use of bodycams, sometimes collectively:

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/loc...n_body_cameras

    Of course, even when you have to wear a bodycam, there's nothing to stop it from malfunctioning or being turned off at opportune moments.
    I wouldn't want to wear a body cam at work with the video available for authorities to examine whenever they want. But of course, my job doesn't entail the power and authority to kill people either.
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    That's no moon. EyeKhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    There was a point before police started shooting where they weren't regularly losing their or their colleagues lives and weren't in danger in America? Please let me know when this point was in your eyes? When was the bed made?
    I'm not sure what you're asking because your sentence structure is confusing to me. But it appears police have been shooting black folks unjustly and getting away with it for a long time. At any rate, the black community has been complaining about it for a long time, though the mainstream didn't take them seriously until very recently, with the advent of video evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post


    This is not a chicken and the egg situation. The police are the ones that made this bed.
    I like how you assume 'the police' are a monolithic entity. Police relations in different communities are vastly different. Saying that people should be suspicious of police shootings simply because some police in some parts of the country have done bad things isn't much different than saying "well blacks do proportionally more crime than other ethnic groups so we should treat them with suspicion.'

    In fact one of the areas that actually was doing their best to remedy the situation was Dallas.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.eeb488da27eb

    "Brown has fired more than 70 Dallas cops since taking office. But he doesn’t just fire bad cops, he also announces the firings — and the reasons for them — on social media. It’s a bold sort of transparency for which, again, he’s been criticized by police groups. Shortly after taking office, Brown fired a police officer who had kicked and maced a handcuffed suspect. But he not only fired the cop, he publicly praised the officer who turned that cop in, an implicit acknowledgment and criticism of the notorious Blue Wall. “One of the things that I really want to express about Officer Upshaw’s action is that we should not as a department ostracize him in any way. We should applaud him coming forward, him intervening,” Brown said."

    "In addition to publicly announcing the termination of bad cops and making the data on police shootings publicly available, Brown has implemented a policy of collecting and releasing data on all use-of-force incidents. Brown has also implemented a body camera policy that’s mostly consistent with the model policy recommended by the American Civil Liberties Union. He also regularly makes himself available to the media. In a 2014 op-ed shortly after Ferguson erupted, Brown stressed the importance of transparency, disclosure and honesty in the hours after a police shooting. In another interview, he stressed the importance of staying connected to and in touch with the community, even when tensions are high: “I would much rather have a couple of hundred folks shouting at me in a church than on a protest line after a police shooting because ‘I never talked to them,’ or ‘I never listened to them,’ ‘I never had a meeting with them.’” DPD has also emphasized and publicized the fact that citizens have a First Amendment right to record police officers (although the agency’s actual written policy could definitely be improved)."

    And the fucked up thing? The BLM supporter chose the Dallas PD to target.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    I'm not sure what you're asking because your sentence structure is confusing to me. But it appears police have been shooting black folks unjustly and getting away with it for a long time. At any rate, the black community has been complaining about it for a long time, though the mainstream didn't take them seriously until very recently, with the advent of video evidence.
    Criminals also cry wolf. I mean lets face it violent criminals are pretty much scum with no moral compass. Do you really think they would be honest? It is also in criminal's best interest to handcuff the police force as much as they can - they will always cry abuse even where there is none. Video evidence is important and that's why I support body cams. Most cops are fine, the bad ones should be removed. Do that with video evidence - not the say so of a criminal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Christ. What shitheads.
    That's a difficult situation the right call probably would have been to shoot the guy - if a guy is waving his gun around, is suicidal how likely would it be for it to go off and kill someone? Like I said tough call, the officer in question is clearly an amazing individual who analyzed the situation perfectly and made the right call. He knew what he was doing but I don't think everyone is going to have the same level of discernment and skill at reading a situation. As a citizen I'd much rather have the crazy guy waving a gun acting suicidal put down than him be a risk to others.

    Firing him seems really stupid though.

  30. #30
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    I'm not sure what you're asking because your sentence structure is confusing to me. But it appears police have been shooting black folks unjustly and getting away with it for a long time. At any rate, the black community has been complaining about it for a long time, though the mainstream didn't take them seriously until very recently, with the advent of video evidence.
    The point of a "chicken and egg" situation is that both have been going back indefinitely. But apparently this isn't such a situation and the Police made this bed. Which means there must have been a point of time where the police were not shooting blacks. There must have been a point of time where the Police weren't losing their lives, or their colleagues lives. There must have been a point of time when the lives of the Police was not in danger in America. Because after this point of time the Police apparently made the bed and started shooting.

    I am wondering when this was. When was the bed made? When did the Police start shooting and when after that did their lives start to be put at risk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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