Insanity in Europe

[Lewkowski]

http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/07/sw...g-rape-victim/

"The case of a then 12-year-old girl who got raped by Guled Mohamud, a Somali citizen, gained national attention in Sweden after Mohamud was convicted and sentenced to community service. Almost 10 months after the sentencing, the girl allegedly continues to get threatened, stalked and even assaulted by the man’s brother. Authorities have been informed on several occasions, but have not acted.

“Hanna needs to get her rights back,” Hanna’s father told local newspaper Sundsvalls Tidning (ST). “This boy has a restraining order and still comes and assaults my daughter, but nothing happens.”

The rape took place Nov. 10, 2014, after Mohamud lured Hanna back to his apartment. Mohamud said his friends had revealing images of Hanna on his phone that he would give back to her if she came. As soon as they arrived at the apartment, Mohamud started ripping Hanna’s clothes off and started beating her before the rape began. (RELATED: Immigrant To Sweden Rapes 12-Year-Old Girl, Gets Community Service)"

Rape convictions usually result in between two and six years in prison in Sweden. Since Mohamud was 17 at the time of the crime, and had a clean criminal record, he was tried as a minor. He was sentenced to probation and 180 hours of community service in June, 2015."

The issue of falsely reported rapes is often under reported. However who here actually opposes harsher penalties for rapists who have been clearly found guilty? Community service for the violent RAPE of a 12 year old girl? Oh he's 17 so we'll just give him community service. What The Fuck. In a just society this piece of shit would be hung from a lamp post. Society should have no place for scum like this.

I'm sure the regular criminal sympathizes (like Khen) will come in bleating about how they are people too and how rapists deserve to be rehabilitated and not punished.

[EyeKhan]

I googled "Guled Mohamud" to try and verify this story and came up with links from dailycaller.com, themuslimissue.wordpress.com, lastresistance.com, dailystormer.com, debatez.com, freerepublic.com, barenakedislam.com, libertynews.com ... Nothing from any legitimate news sources. How sure are you this story isn't racist bullshit? Do you care, or are you just interested in being outraged for the sake of being outraged?

[Lewkowski]

I'm curious, if the story is true why do you think MSM hasn't picked up the story?

[EyeKhan]

The only relevant thing you said is "If the story is true...." Work on that one first. Nothing else need (or should) be said before you figure that out.

[Ominous Gamer]

I googled "Guled Mohamud" to try and verify this story and came up with links from dailycaller.com, themuslimissue.wordpress.com, lastresistance.com, dailystormer.com, debatez.com, freerepublic.com, barenakedislam.com, libertynews.com ... Nothing from any legitimate news sources. How sure are you this story isn't racist bullshit? Do you care, or are you just interested in being outraged for the sake of being outraged?

All Lewk has been doing as of late is spamming the top stories he finds at /r/the_donald over at reddit. There is no fact checking, no verification, actual discussion that doesn't fall under circle jerking is banned. The quality is comparable to the slime you wash out of the filter of a kiddie pool.

This link is likely his open serve before trying to claim a "trend" by posting another sentencing that just happened involving another Mohammed. If you had ignored him he would have likely just talked to himself like he did in the other thread when no one gave him attention.

[Lewkowski]

All Lewk has been doing as of late is spamming the top links from /r/the_donald over at reddit. There is no fact checking, no verification, actual discussion that doesn't fall under circle jerking is banned. The claim is a few hours old, so it could be a bit before an english source is able to verify what is actually going on.

April 7th.

[Lewkowski]

The only relevant thing you said is "If the story is true...." Work on that one first. Nothing else need (or should) be said before you figure that out.

There are multiple sites carrying the story. Part of the issue is it did happen in a different country but I've yet to see anyone debunking the story. And frankly it isn't like we haven't seen rapists get off with slap on the wrists in a wide variety of countries (including a sad example here in America that was posted within the last year) so why would there be doubt that it occurred?

[Ominous Gamer]

April 7th.

I got my two articles crossed, I've clarified the post.

[Enoch the Red]

I googled "Guled Mohamud" to try and verify this story and came up with links from dailycaller.com, themuslimissue.wordpress.com, lastresistance.com, dailystormer.com, debatez.com, freerepublic.com, barenakedislam.com, libertynews.com ... Nothing from any legitimate news sources. How sure are you this story isn't racist bullshit? Do you care, or are you just interested in being outraged for the sake of being outraged?

I wouldn't want to claim authority on the quality of Swedish media, but the link that Lewk posted does have a link to what I assume is a local Swedish daily.

It wasn't too difficult to get Google translate to do the heavy lifting: https://translate.google.com/transla...mannens-vanner

Not to diminish your Google-fu, but this didn't exactly take Sherlock-esque powers of deduction to accomplish.

[Aimless]

It's a real case and the information available to the public is such that no-one can make sense of the police department's failure to protect this girl. By all accounts social services fucked up too. It's quite incomprehensible and I'm surprised no-one's been killed yet.

[EyeKhan]

There are multiple sites carrying the story. Part of the issue is it did happen in a different country but I've yet to see anyone debunking the story. And frankly it isn't like we haven't seen rapists get off with slap on the wrists in a wide variety of countries (including a sad example here in America that was posted within the last year) so why would there be doubt that it occurred?

You should doubt that it occurred because there is no legitimate news site reporting on it at all. Don't you care if you're being led around by your emotions on a leash of lies? If you just want to hate Muslims, then be a man, throw down and declare your prejudice. Hiding behind lies as some idiot justification is childish - and it doesn't work anyway. Anyone but an idiot is going to call out your prejudice anyway.

[EyeKhan]

It's a real case and the information available to the public is such that no-one can make sense of the police department's failure to protect this girl. By all accounts social services fucked up too. It's quite incomprehensible and I'm surprised no-one's been killed yet.

Could you at least post a link or something to verify?

[Lewkowski]

You should doubt that it occurred because there is no legitimate news site reporting on it at all. Don't you care if you're being led around by your emotions on a leash of lies? If you just want to hate Muslims, then be a man, throw down and declare your prejudice. Hiding behind lies as some idiot justification is childish - and it doesn't work anyway. Anyone but an idiot is going to call out your prejudice anyway.

It isn't about hating individuals it is about recognizing a toxic culture. Which BTW isn't solely religious. It is relevant to American interests as we've been asked to accept a large number of people from said culture into the country. The culture (conservatively religious, very sexist, real rape culture, extremely anti-homosexual *not in the we won't bake a cake but you should be stoned to death* and violent) should be something any person on the left should be like 'woah these guys are bad news' but because of their myopic non-Western everything must be good because the West is oppressive, they ignore it. Now clearly not all people from Somalia or Syria fit the mold but when it comes to accepting refugees from those countries how much do we want to risk? The continued appeasement by the left is pretty insulting. Handing out 'no grope' bracelets and putting up signs about what isn't appropriate behavior seems to be Europe's solution, I don't think it works.

[EyeKhan]

It isn't about hating individuals it is about recognizing a toxic culture. Which BTW isn't solely religious. It is relevant to American interests as we've been asked to accept a large number of people from said culture into the country. The culture (conservatively religious, very sexist, real rape culture, extremely anti-homosexual *not in the we won't bake a cake but you should be stoned to death* and violent) should be something any person on the left should be like 'woah these guys are bad news' but because of their myopic non-Western everything must be good because the West is oppressive, they ignore it. Now clearly not all people from Somalia or Syria fit the mold but when it comes to accepting refugees from those countries how much do we want to risk? The continued appeasement by the left is pretty insulting. Handing out 'no grope' bracelets and putting up signs about what isn't appropriate behavior seems to be Europe's solution, I don't think it works.

Refugees and immigrants to the US are required to live by US laws. They know this before they come. And if they break US law, then they get charged and go through the legal system just like anyone else. What exactly do you think we are risking?

[Lewkowski]

Refugees and immigrants to the US are required to live by US laws. They know this before they come. And if they break US law, then they get charged and go through the legal system just like anyone else. What exactly do you think we are risking?

That they break the laws? Just because we have a police force and courts doesn't mean we are OK with crime. They would also drain money from social services? They have trouble integrating? (See France). Possible terrorism?

[Lewkowski]

Also are we all in agreement that the sentence was far too lenient? I'm curious if anyone will be defending that aspect.

[Aimless]

Could you at least post a link or something to verify?

http://www.st.nu/medelpad/sundsvall/...mannens-vanner

[EyeKhan]

That they break the laws? Just because we have a police force and courts doesn't mean we are OK with crime. They would also drain money from social services? They have trouble integrating? (See France). Possible terrorism?

There's a risk that any human being that sets foot in this country will break a law, regardless of any other factor, visitor, citizen, legal, illegal, whatever. But you want to keep out Muslims because they might break a law. So now you will argue Muslims break the law more often or in qualitatively worse ways than anyone else. Right? And that's why you post things like this, to say see, Muslims are bad. Keep them out. Right?

[Enoch the Red]

There's a risk that any human being that sets foot in this country will break a law, regardless of any other factor, visitor, citizen, legal, illegal, whatever. But you want to keep out Muslims because they might break a law. So now you will argue Muslims break the law more often or in qualitatively worse ways than anyone else. Right? And that's why you post things like this, to say see, Muslims are bad. Keep them out. Right?

I think there's likely another component for this, which is that not all cultures are equally easy for any given refugee to assimilate into. There are likely cultures and places that are more accommodating, and easier to parse for some refugees than others. This has many contributing factors, but can be because of a shared language or values, a common religion, or historical kinship, etc... For instance, it would likely be much easier for me to assimilate as a refugee into Canada's milieu than for me to successfully assimilate into Afghanistan's. A successful low level assimilation has benefits for both the refugee and the country where they are making their new home.

In short, a nation willing to accept any and all refugees may be a pursuing a noble goal in theory, but in practice it may not always be in either party's best interest. Whether or not, or how this should impact policy is another matter entirely.

[EyeKhan]

I think there's likely another component for this, which is that not all cultures are equally easy for any given refugee to assimilate into. There are likely cultures and places that are more accommodating, and easier to parse for some refugees than others. This has many contributing factors, but can be because of a shared language or values, a common religion, or historical kinship, etc... For instance, it would likely be much easier for me to assimilate as a refugee into Canada's milieu than for me to successfully assimilate into Afghanistan's. A successful low level assimilation has benefits for both the refugee and the country where they are making their new home.

In short, a nation willing to accept any and all refugees may be a pursuing a noble goal in theory, but in practice it may not always be in either party's best interest. Whether or not, or how this should impact policy is another matter entirely.

It's almost certainly true that Canada would be easier to assimilate into than Afghanistan for ANY immigrant from almost ANYWHERE. By definition a wealthy, peaceful, western liberal democracy is more welcoming to diversity than a third-world, war-torn, conservative religious theocracy. That example doesn't illustrate anything.

And essentially, what you've said is just a sanitized version of what Luke said, but more or less the same thing. You are saying Muslims that immigrate into the US commit more and worse crimes than other people, because they are Muslim.

[Enoch the Red]

It's almost certainly true that Canada would be easier to assimilate into than Afghanistan for ANY immigrant from almost ANYWHERE. By definition a wealthy, peaceful, western liberal democracy is more welcoming to diversity than a third-world, war-torn, conservative religious theocracy. That example doesn't illustrate anything.

And essentially, what you've said is just a sanitized version of what Luke said, but more or less the same thing. You are saying Muslims that immigrate into the US commit more and worse crimes than other people, because they are Muslim.

Do you think it would be easier for a Syrian refugee to adjust to Jordan's culture, a society that shares a language, dominant religion, cultural norms, climate, and history - or Japan's? This notion that all cultures are equally easy for anyone to assimilate into, (or is it only wealthy, peaceful, western liberal democracies that are easy?) is supremely arrogant - they just are not. I find it tremendously unlikely that Pashtun farmer living in Pakistan would find it harder to assimilate into a town across the border in Afghanistan than they would moving to Quebec. If I share no language, no history, and little in the way of accepted cultural mores with my adopted home, do you believe I am better or worse off than if I did share those attributes?

And while that's a fanciful alternate interpretation of what I've said, what I'm really saying is that for a Syrian refugee anywhere is probably better than Aleppo, but it may be easier to adapt to a life in a country that has more in common with their home than one that has less. The same would be true of an immigrant from the West. Canada would likely be easier for me to assimilate into than Britain, which would likely be easier than Australia, which would be easier for me to assimilate into than Germany. The larger the difference, the longer and possibly harder it is to adapt and become a productive, happy member of that society, especially when starting over completely - as a refugee would be. A failure, or refusal to understand this is not doing anyone any favors.

[Steely Glint]

Other than the fact that the perpetrators were immigrants, what distinguishes this from dozens of other similar cases in the US and Europe, like the Steubenville case?

Only difference is that the victim is younger than is typical, and the police don't seem interested in protecting the victim from harassment. If Somali culture can be labelled 'toxic' for producing individuals that are capable of such things, then what does that say about our culture when exactly the same things happen here?

[Aimless]

Both integration and assimilation are greatly aided by economic opportunities that let people from different cultures work together, do business together, innovate together etc. Anecdotally, sharing a language may make communication easier but in practice that may just make it easier to get on each other's nerves and start fights with fatal outcomes. The countries near Afghanistan and Syria are not known for the health of their economies, and I believe that, despite everything they've done to help refugees, their societies may be even less friendly than my own, to outsiders.

[Enoch the Red]

Both integration and assimilation are greatly aided by economic opportunities that let people from different cultures work together, do business together, innovate together etc. Anecdotally, sharing a language may make communication easier but in practice that may just make it easier to get on each other's nerves and start fights with fatal outcomes. The countries near Afghanistan and Syria are not known for the health of their economies, and I believe that, despite everything they've done to help refugees, their societies may be even less friendly than my own, to outsiders.

These points are well taken - let's do a Gedankenexperiment. All other things being equal, including economic opportunities and how welcoming the host country is to outsiders, do you believe it easier to assimilate into a country that is more similar to your home, or less similar?

[Lewkowski]

Do you think it would be easier for a Syrian refugee to adjust to Jordan's culture, a society that shares a language, dominant religion, cultural norms, climate, and history - or Japan's?

As an aside... Japan never gets a fraction the amount of shade that America gets for not accepting refugees. I get they have a lot more people per area but I sense a double standard.

[Loki]

These points are well taken - let's do a Gedankenexperiment. All other things being equal, including economic opportunities and how welcoming the host country is to outsiders, do you believe it easier to assimilate into a country that is more similar to your home, or less similar?

And how do you determine similarity? How is this different to Americans claiming that Italians, the Irish, Jews, Poles, etc. couldn't assimilate because of their different cultures and religions?

[Enoch the Red]

And how do you determine similarity? How is this different to Americans claiming that Italians, the Irish, Jews, Poles, etc. couldn't assimilate because of their different cultures and religions?

I don't think anyone claimed that assimilation is impossible, at least I have not. Ideally the refugees would make that choice, and they have. Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey have some of the largest numbers of refugees. Proximity played a role to be sure, but so did the same factors covered previously.

[Loki]

I don't think anyone claimed that assimilation is impossible, at least I have not. Ideally the refugees would make that choice, and they have. Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey have some of the largest numbers of refugees. Proximity played a role to be sure, but so did the same factors covered previously.

No, proximity played the entire role. I don't think you realize just how difficult it is to get refugee status from a war zone. Plus they have no rights in Lebanon and Jordan, and few rights in Turkey. No sane person would accept refugee status there if there were alternatives.

Lewk et al.: here's a question, do you think this is the only case where a rapist got off easily? Do you think Muslims are disproportionately likely to get off easily? If the answer to both of those questions is no, why highlight the Muslim dimension?

[Hazir]

It isn't about hating individuals it is about recognizing a toxic culture. Which BTW isn't solely religious. It is relevant to American interests as we've been asked to accept a large number of people from said culture into the country. The culture (conservatively religious, very sexist, real rape culture, extremely anti-homosexual *not in the we won't bake a cake but you should be stoned to death* and violent) should be something any person on the left should be like 'woah these guys are bad news' but because of their myopic non-Western everything must be good because the West is oppressive, they ignore it. Now clearly not all people from Somalia or Syria fit the mold but when it comes to accepting refugees from those countries how much do we want to risk? The continued appeasement by the left is pretty insulting. Handing out 'no grope' bracelets and putting up signs about what isn't appropriate behavior seems to be Europe's solution, I don't think it works.

Interesting that you throw in homosexuals there. Because they are hit by this type of bans too. I can tell you that before this ban a Iranian friend of mine was taken through this extreme vetting for 2 years before he was allowed to fly to the USA.

In little over 4 months he was working, the language he knew well before he got on the plane.

Under the ban he would have been rejected and be under the permanent threat of being sent back to the extremely homophobic Islamic Republic of Iran.

[Lewkowski]

Lewk et al.: here's a question, do you think this is the only case where a rapist got off easily? Do you think Muslims are disproportionately likely to get off easily? If the answer to both of those questions is no, why highlight the Muslim dimension?

No, not the only case.

In certain countries where political correctness has gotten out of control yes I do think they may get off easier.