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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #2971
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    None of things that have caused problems during the negotiations were even mentioned during the campaign; noone brought up the Irish border or the divorce bill or any of that stuff, and it was the Remain side that should have been hammering that stuff, instead of vague predictions of non-specific calamities. But I guess they couldn't be bothered to look into it?
    Part ignorance and incompetence, part indifference, part lack of respect for voters.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  2. #2972
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    I mean, the Leave vote was largely driven by fear of immigration, so yeah it kinda was.
    Concerns over migration is not xenophobic. It can be, but its not automatically.
    None of things that have caused problems during the negotiations were even mentioned during the campaign; noone brought up the Irish border or the divorce bill or any of that stuff, and it was the Remain side that should have been hammering that stuff, instead of vague predictions of non-specific calamities. But I guess they couldn't be bothered to look into it?
    Actually Ireland was brought up but it didn't get much traction as its not a real problem. Shame it has got traction since when we have such a pathetically weak PM she's allowed it to become an issue.

    The divorce bill is a non-issue as its simply a settling up of payments we would have had to pay anyway had we remained. Though of course in a no-deal scenario there is no bill.

    But yeah the Remain campaign was appallingly mishandled and deserved to lose. I mean seriously on the day the Remain campaign chief was appointed he made the warning that if we exited then wages would rise which just goes to show how out of touch and myopic some people can be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #2973
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Concerns over migration is not xenophobic. It can be, but its not automatically.

    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  4. #2974
    And that's quite mild. The UK losing its mind over the prospect of non-Anglo* immigrants is practically an annual tradition.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  5. #2975
    What's xenophobic about those posters Steely?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  6. #2976
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    What's xenophobic about those posters Steely?
    You're pretending you don't know what words mean now? Why don't you hold your breath while you're at it?
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  7. #2977
    I know what words mean.

    There's no words there that show "a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #2978
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I know what words mean.

    There's no words there that show "a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries."
    Haha, like racists haven’t learned from previous convictions.
    Congratulations America

  9. #2979
    Woof woof woof woof!!
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  10. #2980
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  11. #2981
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    Congratulations America

  12. #2982
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Haha, like racists haven’t learned from previous convictions.
    Anyone who mentions immigration is not automatically xenophobic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  13. #2983
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    In case of a no deal Brexit, The Netherlands no longer will recognize the validity of UK diplomas and certificates. Including driver’s licences as of March 30th, 2019. Otherwise government is asking parliament for powers to temporarily provide for regulations by decrete. A general leading principle will be that the effects on individuals with existing rights resident in The Netherlands will be mitigated. There is no such principle put in place for businesses.
    Congratulations America

  14. #2984
    Interesting to see a Dutch expert saying exactly what I've been saying all along: https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/bo...-mps-1-8706484

    The technology is there, companies need to declare what they are doing and the whole system can be electronic and up and running before the end of transition.

    But 'who needs experts' hey?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  15. #2985
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    And the credentials of said expert are exactly what?
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  16. #2986
    Well he is "former chairman of the Dutch Association of Customs Brokers" and responsible for Rotterdam the busiest port in Europe.
    His proposals include comprehensive use of electronic declarations, use of customs brokers and HMRC carrying out customs inspection at company premises. This was not technology based but uses existing EU approved practices, he said.

    In Rotterdam, being the biggest port in Europe ... there is a vast amount of containers coming in every day and we would handle that from somewhere inland. Everything is virtual nowadays. I don’t talk to customs officers anymore, I talk to a customs computer. Everything is computerised. I never see goods, goods are defined on paper.

    Read more at: https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/bo...-mps-1-8706484
    If it is good enough for Rotterdam, its good enough for Ireland.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #2987
    That's not actually the case. Rotterdam is larger and busier, yes, but the problems with the Irish border arise from the nature of the border, the nature of cross border trade on the island and the unique legal aspects. This man may perhaps be regarded as an expert on customs and on trade in Rotterdam, but he should not be regarded as an expert on cross-border trade between NI and Ireland. He is, also, only one expert, whose opinion differs from that of others with similar expertise or more relevant expertise.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  18. #2988
    Can somebody help me understand something please: how does more sophisticated customs checks keep the GFA in tact, which, as I understood things, is based on the assumption that both sides of the border operate under identical trading and regulatory conditions.

    Is there idea to diverge regulatory and trading conditions but enforce more checks? That doesn't seem in keeping with the principles of the GFA.

    <---- ignorant on this

  19. #2989
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    That's not actually the case. Rotterdam is larger and busier, yes, but the problems with the Irish border arise from the nature of the border, the nature of cross border trade on the island and the unique legal aspects. This man may perhaps be regarded as an expert on customs and on trade in Rotterdam, but he should not be regarded as an expert on cross-border trade between NI and Ireland. He is, also, only one expert, whose opinion differs from that of others with similar expertise or more relevant expertise.
    And more important; he told the Committee they don’t even know the basics. Aside from that customs are the easy part of keeping the border open.
    Congratulations America

  20. #2990
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    Can somebody help me understand something please: how does more sophisticated customs checks keep the GFA in tact, which, as I understood things, is based on the assumption that both sides of the border operate under identical trading and regulatory conditions.

    Is there idea to diverge regulatory and trading conditions but enforce more checks? That doesn't seem in keeping with the principles of the GFA.

    <---- ignorant on this
    Because that's now what the GFA is about. There already are checks for a plethora of divergences as we already don't operate under identical trading conditions. Taxes etc are quite different on the two sides of the border and these are all dealt with away from the border. So long as the checks are done away from the border the GFA is intact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #2991
    You say that's not what it's about, but I thought a major principle of the GFA was to ensure there would be no need for checks at the border, such that the island, in some respects, was treated as a single state.

  22. #2992
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Well he is "former chairman of the Dutch Association of Customs Brokers" and responsible for Rotterdam the busiest port in Europe.
    That's nice for him. I was actually looking for something more in the area of "Software Engineer" or "Software Architect".

    Because, you see, knowing about the regulations doesn't mean that he has much of a clue on the actual systems behind them. It's the same reason why you don't let lawyers develop legal software.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  23. #2993
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    You say that's not what it's about, but I thought a major principle of the GFA was to ensure there would be no need for checks at the border, such that the island, in some respects, was treated as a single state.
    If that's what you thought then you were wrong.

    The border is already extremely real and already cross border trade needs declaring for instance with respect to VAT etc
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #2994
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    If that's what you thought then you were wrong.

    The border is already extremely real and already cross border trade needs declaring for instance with respect to VAT etc
    That's a pretty far cry from what the border will have to look like in case of a Hard Brexit.

    But, please, continue to display your willful ignorance.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  25. #2995
    Indeed which is why my preferred solution all along is a trade deal that renders it moot, but you guys aren't interested in talking trade yet. We could have spent 18 months already negotiating the future agreement but you don't want to so oh well. Clearly avoiding a hard border isn't really all that big a deal to you and you're prepared to stir up violence for the sake of trying to get one over us in a negotiation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #2996
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    And you have been told for over two years that to get such a deal pretty much all of your red lines have to go. Because unlike you we don't believe people who promise us unicorns.
    Congratulations America

  27. #2997
    There's nothing unicorny about it and if you'd start negotiating we could talk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  28. #2998
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    Give me one good reason why we would bother.
    Congratulations America

  29. #2999
    Because you supposedly want to avoid a border in Ireland and a return to bombings or some such bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #3000
    The article 50 process is clear about this, and you knew before the referendum how the negotiations would be conducted. A future trade relationship will take far more time than the a50 process provides for, which is also something you knew before the referendum. A50 was not custom-made for delusional and confused Brexiters who, like you, want to screw over NI; it was designed as a general framework for a generic country choosing to leave the EU. To negotiate the future relationship for an indefinite length of time, while the UK remains a full member—without any clarity on whether or not the UK will honor its obligations, negotiate in good faith, or, indeed, leave at all—would be ludicrous. I understand that's what you unicorn-botherers would prefer, but it's not what reality and the law can offer you.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

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