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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #3361
    Both yes and no. Should not disregard a couple of decades of EU-blaming asshattery. Difficult to turn things around over the course of a single campaign, especially when your country is run by nihilists. Cameron's decision to hold a referendum ultimately resulted from his party's—and British media's—decades-long campaign to discredit the EU, and the Tories' decisions to appease or even embrace xenophobes for political gain.

    To be fair, perhaps that was rational, in a stupid, shortsighted way. The one group you can blame without any compunctions are those who wanted to remain but chose not to vote.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  2. #3362
    As I've pointed out before anti EU sentiment in the UK pre-ref was no higher than comparable European countries, and was against leaving. The referendum was remains to lose, and they lost it.
    I fought the decisions that call and lost my mark as a relevant piece in this
    I will come reformed
    In short, for the murders of those I court, I bless the hour that holds your fall
    I will kill you all
    I will call you out from shelter, burn your wings and you'll know no better

  3. #3363
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    As I've pointed out before anti EU sentiment in the UK pre-ref was no higher than comparable European countries, and was against leaving. The referendum was remains to lose, and they lost it.
    It was because of that anti-EU sentiment that the Tories swung in that direction and the referendum was promised to begin with. It's possible for people to be against leaving while simultaneously being against the things that remaining entails, eg. FoM. In such situations, preferences cannot be reconciled with reality.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  4. #3364
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    It boils down to exactly that; wanting pretty much everything the EU delivers combined with a general feeling of unease about the existence of the EU as it is, is what led to the out decision. Now people are facing that leaving the EU also means risking everything you actually liked about it. Or tinker with its constitution again.

    Remainers are only marginally better than leavers; the main difference is that where leavers don't think about what leave means, remainers don't really think about what reforms of the EU they want.

    And Steely: attitudes in the UK are nothing like what they are in other countries. The so-called anti-EU politicians in the EU27 vehemently disagree with policies pursued by the EU. They want to change those, not just break the Union.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  5. #3365
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    They want to change those, not just break the Union.
    And if they ever thought about breaking it, they definitely won't do so now.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
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  6. #3366
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    And Steely: attitudes in the UK are nothing like what they are in other countries. The so-called anti-EU politicians in the EU27 vehemently disagree with policies pursued by the EU. They want to change those, not just break the Union.
    Both the Front National and the Swedish Democrats have spoken about leaving the EU.
    I fought the decisions that call and lost my mark as a relevant piece in this
    I will come reformed
    In short, for the murders of those I court, I bless the hour that holds your fall
    I will kill you all
    I will call you out from shelter, burn your wings and you'll know no better

  7. #3367
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Both the Front National and the Swedish Democrats have spoken about leaving the EU.
    They have, but they don't dare speak too loudly about it for fear of jeopardizing their electoral appeal. 60% of polled SD voters say they favor Swexit, and the true number is likely to be lower. Around a third of SD's voters don't think SD is the party that best matches their views, ie. they're protest-voters. When I spoke with SD politicians and voters on the run up to the election, I kept seeing examples of this: the core voters say they want Sweden to leave the EU, while the others are ambivalent about or opposed to Swexit. Consequently, SD's policy has also been... ambivalence, wrt the EU, stating that they want Sweden to leave, and that they'd like to see a new membership referendum soon—but don't want to talk about it right now.
    Last edited by Aimless; 02-01-2019 at 01:40 PM.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #3368
    Because they have an electoral appeal to jeopardise. How many mainstream British parties were in favour of Brexit before the vote? Was it none?
    I fought the decisions that call and lost my mark as a relevant piece in this
    I will come reformed
    In short, for the murders of those I court, I bless the hour that holds your fall
    I will kill you all
    I will call you out from shelter, burn your wings and you'll know no better

  9. #3369
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Because they have an electoral appeal to jeopardise. How many mainstream British parties were in favour of Brexit before the vote? Was it none?
    How many mainstream British parties were driven by anti-EU Brits to hold a referendum on the UK's EU membership, and indeed won an election on the back of that promise?

    SD is a populist, nationalist, socially conservative, anti-establishment anti-immigration party first and foremost—that's what has enabled the party's success. Were it only—or much more clearly—an anti-EU party, it would alienate a substantial portion of its voters, and be a largely irrelevant bloc in parliament. The Swedish public has shown a relatively strong preference for continued membership for most of the time that we've been an EU member, whereas the British public has on many occasions been slightly in favor of leaving—at least, according to polls. And wasn't Labour opposed to the EU/EEC in the 80s? In contrast, leaving the EU has not been a viable mainstream policy in Sweden since we joined.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  10. #3370
    Just so we're talking about the same things here, which other EU member states do you believe have historically and recently been comparable to the UK wrt support for continued membership?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  11. #3371
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    I think it's rubbish anyway to make the upcoming elections about a struggle for life or death between pro and anti Europeans. None of these parties seriously want to be out of the union. A generous asylum system or Austerity are neither of them founding principles of the Union. To want to change either is normal politics.

    Oh, and that of course means that the biggest asshat in the Hoc is Corbyn.
    Last edited by Hazir; 02-01-2019 at 07:46 PM.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  12. #3372
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    8 weeks left ❤️
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  13. #3373
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  14. #3374
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  15. #3375
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    It will apply to the UK too, for a little under 8 weeks.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  16. #3376
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    https://www.bsigroup.com/en-GB/medic...29-march-2019/

    Medical devices which have CE certification from UK based notified bodies will lose their CE mark in case of a hard Brexit (unless they migrate to a European based NB). That means they cannot be sold anymore if they are registered in the UK - at least in the EU, nothing is known yet about how the UK will handle any of this, of course.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  17. #3377
    If this is retroactive it'll be a huge pain in the ass for our MRI safety procedures.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  18. #3378
    It would be insane to be retrospective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  19. #3379
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Just so we're talking about the same things here, which other EU member states do you believe have historically and recently been comparable to the UK wrt support for continued membership?
    Non-Euro western nations.

    Pre Lisbon leaving the EU was an entirely fringe idea in the UK. Even under sceptics like Hague and Howard our membership wasn't questioned.

    When the ball started moving it happened pretty fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #3380
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    If this is retroactive it'll be a huge pain in the ass for our MRI safety procedures.
    Anything that's delivered to the market on Brexit day is fine. And manufacturers can transfer their certificate to a notified body in the EU, but they have to do it before end of March or they cannot sell any new product until they are recertified.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  21. #3381
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Anything that's delivered to the market on Brexit day is fine. And manufacturers can transfer their certificate to a notified body in the EU, but they have to do it before end of March or they cannot sell any new product until they are recertified.
    That's a relief, and it looks like we may not be as reliant on UK medtech certification as I'd feared.

    Meanwhile, the stupidity continues unabated:

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  22. #3382
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Of course they're already working on the stab-in-the-back myth. It's never their fault and they'll never forgive us for letting them leave.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  23. #3383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    That's a relief, and it looks like we may not be as reliant on UK medtech certification as I'd feared.

    Meanwhile, the stupidity continues unabated:

    And that cry baby expects the special relationship with the USA to save them? The same people who denied them help after WW II?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  24. #3384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Of course they're already working on the stab-in-the-back myth. It's never their fault and they'll never forgive us for letting them leave.
    Why would we care who they think they can blame ?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  25. #3385
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    Hey Randy: more 'project fear' for you; Nissan reversed it's plans for building a new line of cars in the UK and Ford axed 400 jobs.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  26. #3386
    Only on topic if you're an ignorant braindead moron who has missed the news about the car industry in recent years. Which suits Remainers and #FBPE idiots like yourself.

    The Sunderland plant investment was to provide a growth opportunity to expand production of their next generation of diesel vehicles. It may be breaking news to you but not to me that there has been dramatic changes in supply/demand ratios in the diesel industry in recent years and investing in diesel right now is a terrible idea.

    You'll note that Nissan haven't relocated the investment elsewhere. They've simply cancelled it and will instead send the vehicles from their preexisting factory. In other words they've quite reasonably twigged that they don't need to increase their supply of diesel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #3387
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Only on topic if you're an ignorant braindead moron who has missed the news about the car industry in recent years. Which suits Remainers and #FBPE idiots like yourself.
    I take it that you missed the letter from Nissan to it's Sunderland workers, citing uncertainty due to Brexit as a factor in their decision.
    Greetings, citizen! THE COMPUTER has made you a protector of the underground city of ALPHA COMPLEX. You will have lots of fun rooting out Communist mutant traitors. The Computer says so.

  28. #3388
    Can't trust those dirty lyin' foreigners, they'll say anything to undermine the will of the British people. But, to be fair, the letter did try to downplay any Brexit connections, just acknowledging the obvious impact on their ability to make contingency plans.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  29. #3389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Can't trust those dirty lyin' foreigners, they'll say anything to undermine the will of the British people. But, to be fair, the letter did try to downplay any Brexit connections, just acknowledging the obvious impact on their ability to make contingency plans.
    Also production will be moved to Japan. A country that has a trade relation on the basis of a trade deal with the EU.

    One has to wonder though how RandBlade breathes with his head so far up his own arse.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  30. #3390
    Quote Originally Posted by Unheard Of View Post
    I take it that you missed the letter from Nissan to it's Sunderland workers, citing uncertainty due to Brexit as a factor in their decision.
    Yeah because citing their unprofitability in their own business model is going to get better PR and more sympathy than a lazy excuse of blaming Brexit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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