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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #3511
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Carole Codswallop is posting conspiracy theories on Twitter that an extension will be blocked by "fascists" in Italy and Poland to assist us in leaving and deny her a new vote.
    You know this thing where politicians say one thing for audience A, then the opposite to audience B? It's not an exclusively British thing. Poland has no interest in a no-deal scenario (their citizens in the UK wouldn't like it) and unlike what Brexiteers think the Lega doesn't want to leave the EU, it wants to change the EU.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  2. #3512
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    Greetings, citizen! THE COMPUTER has made you a protector of the underground city of ALPHA COMPLEX. You will have lots of fun rooting out Communist mutant traitors. The Computer says so.

  3. #3513
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    Isn't the real problem that UK politics is extremely adversary so MP's simply are hardwired against compromise. So much so that they cannot change it even now that compromise is the only way forward.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  4. #3514
    Like all other functional democracies, parliament can and does do cross-party things all the time. The basic problem is that almost no one in Parliament seems May's deal going through as their ideal outcome, and they think if they block her deal enough the [thing they want] will happen. Corbyn wants an election, and he thinks the way to get one is to weaken May enough, Remainer MPs want a second referendum because they somehow think people will go along with it if they just decide to have one without a seriously good reason, Euroskeptics think the EU will cave at the last minute because they're morons, hardline Euroskeptics want a hard Brexit because they're scumbags and traitors. About the only people likely to get what they want at this stage are the hard Euroskeptics. I am genuinely disgusted at this point.
    Genie let out of the bottle, it is now the witching hour
    Murderers, you're murderers, we are not the same as you
    When the walls bend with your breathing
    They will suck you down to the other side, with the shadows blue and red
    Your alarm bells; they should be ringing
    This is the gloaming

  5. #3515
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    I don't think it's a 'conspiry theory' when the people in question just outright say that's what they're going to try and do?


    Its not going to happen. I could call for a slice of moon cheese, it doesn't mean there's a conspiracy with NASA to hide the fact the moon is made of cheese and NASA are going to deliver me a delicious slice of moon cheese.

    The Lega and Poland are never going to do this. Not in a month of Sundays.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    You know this thing where politicians say one thing for audience A, then the opposite to audience B? It's not an exclusively British thing. Poland has no interest in a no-deal scenario (their citizens in the UK wouldn't like it) and unlike what Brexiteers think the Lega doesn't want to leave the EU, it wants to change the EU.

    No shit Sherlock, I'm agreeing with you on that. Which is why Carole is as always talking Codswallop. Doesn't matter if that's what Farage wants, it won't happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  6. #3516
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Its not going to happen. I could call for a slice of moon cheese, it doesn't mean there's a conspiracy with NASA to hide the fact the moon is made of cheese and NASA are going to deliver me a delicious slice of moon cheese.
    Yeah, I think I'm going to take your confident assertions about what is and isn't going to happen with a forklift of salt at this point.

    Nevertheless, the point stands: if I report that you're after a slice of moon cheese it's not a conspiracy theory if you've said publically that you're after moon cheese.
    Genie let out of the bottle, it is now the witching hour
    Murderers, you're murderers, we are not the same as you
    When the walls bend with your breathing
    They will suck you down to the other side, with the shadows blue and red
    Your alarm bells; they should be ringing
    This is the gloaming

  7. #3517
    Codswallop didn't report that Farage was after a veto, that would have been true. She went much further saying that Salvini "would" block an extension and calling a veto a "done deal".

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #3518
    She's too quick to describe a mere possibility as a certainty, that I will grant, but that doesn't make her a conspiracy theorist.

    Or do I get to say you a conspiracy theorist and call you "Stupidblade" or whatever when, e.g. German car makers do not in fact stop no deal at the last minute because they're desperate not to loose access to UK markets?
    Genie let out of the bottle, it is now the witching hour
    Murderers, you're murderers, we are not the same as you
    When the walls bend with your breathing
    They will suck you down to the other side, with the shadows blue and red
    Your alarm bells; they should be ringing
    This is the gloaming

  9. #3519
    Rambleblade?
    Genie let out of the bottle, it is now the witching hour
    Murderers, you're murderers, we are not the same as you
    When the walls bend with your breathing
    They will suck you down to the other side, with the shadows blue and red
    Your alarm bells; they should be ringing
    This is the gloaming

  10. #3520
    Well, I can't keep up. Today's vote is just more clusterfuck confusion. Deal or No Deal is supposed to be a crappy reality TV show, not a national policy.

  11. #3521
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    She's too quick to describe a mere possibility as a certainty, that I will grant, but that doesn't make her a conspiracy theorist.

    Or do I get to say you a conspiracy theorist and call you "Stupidblade" or whatever when, e.g. German car makers do not in fact stop no deal at the last minute because they're desperate not to loose access to UK markets?
    You could if I'd said with certainty they would. As that's not what I've said though it won't make sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #3522
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You could if I'd said with certainty they would. As that's not what I've said though it won't make sense.
    Is that a challenge? The fact of the matter is that your Brexit resembles what I told you it would be like in a way even I hadn't expected.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  13. #3523
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Yeah, I think I'm going to take your confident assertions about what is and isn't going to happen with a forklift of salt at this point.

    Nevertheless, the point stands: if I report that you're after a slice of moon cheese it's not a conspiracy theory if you've said publically that you're after moon cheese.
    Tbh, at this point, I don't think the EU's fascist wannabes are the greatest threat to an extension of the A50 period--it's the British Parliament. If the UK requests an extension without there being any indication at all of a workable consensus on the WA forming in Parliament, you won't have to be an anti-EU fascist to want to pass on the offer. It would only prolong uncertainty further, with little expected gain. Would be contrary to business- & political interests in most EU member states.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  14. #3524
    100% agreed.

    There is a deal on the table. If Parliament wants to avoid no deal then they can take it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  15. #3525
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    100% agreed.

    There is a deal on the table. If Parliament wants to avoid no deal then they can take it.
    You can agree, you can disagree, but a 2 year extension would move us all that much away from the cliff's edge. So there will be people who will support that idea, even without the HoC having a plan. Because you know, pain in two years is quite appealing compared to the same pain in 14 days.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  16. #3526
    If everyone in the EU wants to drag this farce out for 2 years then I think enough muppets in Parliament will go along with that. First thing we can do in that 2 years is get rid of the imbecile occupying Number 10.

    I think there's a lot to commend a 21 month extension but it would only make sense if the EU starts negotiating the future agreement which to date we've been told can only be negotiated once we've left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #3527
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    Well, you should know fairly well now what you can get with May's bunch of red lines. Which ones are you willing to drop?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  18. #3528
    None. I'm willing to drop May though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  19. #3529
    It is hilarious how you still think this is all somehow May's fault.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  20. #3530
    It is. This whole thing is a farce and shows abject lack of leadership.

    She finally won a vote today. She called for an extension, her Brexit Secretary summed up the debate calling for an extension - then promptly walked into the Nay lobby to vote against the motion he'd just pushed in the Chamber along with half the Cabinet and most Tory MPs. So May "won" by going against the only thing she's said for the last 2 years and letting her MPs ignore her while she claims the opposition as a win.

    The whole thing is beyond a bad joke now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #3531
    What you're seeing is the clash between your dysfunctional parliament and... reality. A leader is not a magician.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  22. #3532
    'oh no we can't have a second vote it would defy the peoples will'

    you don't actually have to put remain in as an option, you numpties, there are three other possible options
    Genie let out of the bottle, it is now the witching hour
    Murderers, you're murderers, we are not the same as you
    When the walls bend with your breathing
    They will suck you down to the other side, with the shadows blue and red
    Your alarm bells; they should be ringing
    This is the gloaming

  23. #3533
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    'oh no we can't have a second vote it would defy the peoples will'

    you don't actually have to put remain in as an option, you numpties, there are three other possible options
    Good luck trying to get support for a second referendum without Remain being on the ballot.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  24. #3534
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    What you're seeing is the clash between your dysfunctional parliament and... reality. A leader is not a magician.
    Parliament is dysfunctional because the "leader" has no authority and no majority. Now whose fault is that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #3535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    'oh no we can't have a second vote it would defy the peoples will'

    you don't actually have to put remain in as an option, you numpties, there are three other possible options
    Yet Parliament voting on the same thrice somehow is a sound policy.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  26. #3536
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Yet Parliament voting on the same thrice somehow is a sound policy.
    Erskine May says no. It is possible May could request a third vote and the Speaker could say no. A new vote couldn't happen then until the Speaker deemed there had been a substantial change to what was being voted on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #3537
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    But you also know that the change doesn't necessarily have to be in the text of the proposal. It could also be a changed environment. Otherwise, nothing is set in stone. A majority of the House may decide a vote is desirable.

    And unlike before Parliament now actually needs a deal. With preciously little time to decide what that deal might be.
    Last edited by Hazir; 03-14-2019 at 10:41 PM.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  28. #3538
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    Rutte gave a fairly clear message about a delay tonight; he's not very willing to keep on talking about a deal or Brexit for that matter if the UK sticks to its red lines.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  29. #3539
    If there's a long delay, I don't think the EU really has a choice. Because quite frankly whatever May says to you now is moot.

    May could say she wants a long delay to drop her red lines and sign a SM and CU deal.
    May could say she wants a long delay to have a deal v remain referendum.

    You could vote for the long delay or have a crash out. But since May is not in charge of Parliament, you've no more clue that what you agree with May will occur than the deal that was agreed last November with May will occur. Frankly as soon as there is clarity here, either a long extension or a deal ratified, May will be gone. We will get a new PM elected. And that new PM's red lines will reflect what they get elected upon and who gets elected.

    Whatever May said will be gone. Just like whatever Cameron said.

    Rutte may be not very willing to keep on talking, but unless he is willing to cast a veto and have an immediate hard border crash out exit, what he's not very willing to do will be done. Once you've ruled out the impossible ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #3540
    It wouldn't matter who was in charge of this shambles. Whatever decision or policy on Brexit is proposed, it will get voted down by parliament. How else do you parse voting against any deal whilst simultaneously voting against no deal.

    It doesn't matter whether it's May or some other moron in the Tory party, Labour party or the Lib Dems who puts forward a proposal, it will get still get voted down by a parliament filled with idiots who all want their own petty way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

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