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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #331
    No because a trade deal in goods alone is in your interests. We want a deal in goods and services or no deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #332
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    Oh, and otherwise you will take back control by adopting the WTO set?
    Congratulations America

  3. #333
    If need be yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #334
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    LOL, you didn't even understand that adopting a set of rules you have no say in is not taking back control at all. It's being forced to accept foreign rules in order to engage in trade relations.
    Congratulations America

  5. #335
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    The EU has mandated M Barnier for the Brexit-negotiations. One has to wonder when the UK will finally be ready to talk Brexit for real.
    Congratulations America

  6. #336
    Good news, Barnier is the grown up in the EU, he's won my respect in recent months.
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Nope, no need for isolation, we can meet in the middle. We just won't meet your starting point.

    Don't worry, Barnier gets it even if you don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Good news, Barnier is the grown up in the EU, he's won my respect in recent months.
    Funny that you would think that whether or not you respect a civil servant of the EU, makes any difference. You should worry about the respect you can have for your negotiators. And I for one thing am happy we don't have to make do with the kind of clowns your government seems to have in mind.
    Congratulations America

  8. #338
    I'm not worried about whether the UK will seek to get a good deal for the UK, I'd be worried if the EU were dead set against compromising with the UK.

    If a clown like Juncker or Verhofstadt were in charge then that would not be good. The fact that someone I perceive as reasonable as Barnier is in charge, a man who only last week was talking about how compromise would be necessary from the EU side too something you have ruled out, indicates that deep down the EU is willing to reach sensible compromises.

    The odds of a sensible reciprocally beneficial deal being reached is much greater if the EU is putting forward people like Barnier to do the talking. I think it will be possible for Barnier and Davis (or whoever he gets replaced with if he gets reshuffled) to reach a compromise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #339
    That will mean little unless the EU itself is willing to compromise on things like freedom of movement.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  10. #340
    We're not asking you to compromise on things like that since we're not asking to be in the Single Market.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  11. #341
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    That will mean little unless the EU itself is willing to compromise on things like freedom of movement.
    I'm still a bit confused on how any sane person can think that there will be some successful negotiation after a some mere months. Considering how long other trade deals have taken.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  12. #342
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    Barnier is not in charge Randy. He's the appointed civil servant your government can talk with as the people in charge are doing the important stuff. Brexit isn't even in the top three of EU priorities.
    Congratulations America

  13. #343
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    Opinion polls show that most EU(-27) citizens are of the opinion that striking a deal with the UK over the relationship is far less important than defending EU interests, the rights of EU citizens en ensuring that the UK pays up. So, that is the EU version of 'no deal is better than a bad deal'. Except that for us no deal isn't also a reset to chaos.
    Congratulations America

  14. #344
    Just like for us. Though no deal for you does cause chaos to your budget since Germans don't want to pay more and Poles don't want to receive less.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  15. #345
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    Haha, yeah, I'm sure the whole EU will collapse over a tiff over a handful of billions. That's your Brexiteer wet dream isn't it?

    For you on the other hand no deal means that you couldn't even fly anywhere in Europe or the USA. But I guess you people are used to not being able to fly anywhere.
    Last edited by Hazir; 05-30-2017 at 02:55 PM.
    Congratulations America

  16. #346
    Haha yeah you're actually falling for your own spin aren't you? Tell me how many nations can't fly a plane anywhere? How did the UK fly planes before 73? How did Polish planes fly before 2004? Did they pay the EU billions in order to be able to fly planes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #347
    Air travel in Europe has changed a lot since '73. It's also changed a bit since 2004. Best case scenario is that Brexit ends up making travel more inconvenient and more expensive.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  18. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Air travel in Europe has changed a lot since '73. It's also changed a bit since 2004. Best case scenario is that Brexit ends up making travel more inconvenient and more expensive.
    That would be the bad deal scenario. A no deal scenario would mean virtually no air travel.
    Congratulations America

  19. #349
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    I think he's still under the impression that access to any country's airspace doesn't need some kind of agreement. Which would become null and void alongside their EU membership. Which, in case of a "no deal" kind of thing (which would usually be quite abrupt) would come about very quickly.

    https://www.ft.com/content/57c0c01c-...f-061b01e23655
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  20. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    That would be the bad deal scenario. A no deal scenario would mean virtually no air travel.
    I disagree with the latter. Ryanair and easyjet at least will inevitably be all right, praise the Lord
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  21. #351
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    Ryanair is not a EU airline after Brexit, its ownership would be less than 51% as things stand. EasyJet would probably be because of the dual citizenship of Stelios Haji. Both would have to face that without a deal there is no agreement on landing rights or rights to fly in or over Europe for the simple fact that the UK lies outside of the common airspace. Ryanair is working with scenarios meaning they will stop selling tickets on flights to and from the UK months before Brexit.
    Congratulations America

  22. #352
    That scenario continues to be presented as a major but still temporary problem. If it comes to that, Ryanair can no doubt ensure that enough of its shares are sold to EU entities that they will be able to continue with their intra-EU flights.


    In other news:

    https://www.google.se/amp/s/amp.ft.c...4-9023f8c0fd2e

    The first quarter of the article is just rehashing well known problems but the remainder looks at specific examples of deals that may have to be renegotiated.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  23. #353
    Clearly we'll have to reach agreements with third parties like the USSR and Czechoslovakia as the break up of states is just unprecedented and unbearable
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #354
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    Look that's where you are wrong Randy, because this isn't a break up. The EU is will still exist after March 29 2019, whatever it is party to in international treaties no longer applies to you, nor will the EU treaties. And that means that for a whole lot of stuff no deal for you really means you have no deal. Not an old deal lingering but nothing at all. And that means nothing you take for granted today will still apply. Not even the visa-free travel you believe nobody ever would take away from you. Because that would have to be given to you by the EU states that at the time that you want it will be extremely pissed off by you having walked away from your liabilities.
    Congratulations America

  25. #355
    You do realise that Russia is legally the successor state to the USSR right? Or that when Lithuania declared independence the USSR continued without Lithuania?

    Of all the arguments to stay in a union the idea that Lithuania had to remain in the USSR or that the UK has to remain in the EU as the alternative is too difficult is just absurd.

    How many billions in Danegeld did Lithuania pay the USSR in order to be able to have international flights?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #356
    That's not what he's saying. He's saying that when you leave you will have to negotiate new agreements because you will no longer be a party to very many of the agreements that currently give you access to things like flight routes, airports, visa-free travel etc. Unless such agreements are in place when you exit the EU you may have reduced or no access until new agreements are made.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  27. #357
    Yes and we will of course reach such agreements just as all other nations do. Just as nations like Lithuania had to when they much less amicably and with some violence left the USSR. New nations come and old ones go woth surprising regularity. Many new nations do not have amicable break ups from their predecessor. We have a head start in already being a nation and a signatory to many agreements in our own right, something Lithuania didn't have.

    The idea that the UK won't be a fully fledged member of the international community is utterly farcical and absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  28. #358
    This is why analyses like the one in the FT article above are so interesting.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  29. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    That's not what he's saying. He's saying that when you leave you will have to negotiate new agreements because you will no longer be a party to very many of the agreements that currently give you access to things like flight routes, airports, visa-free travel etc. Unless such agreements are in place when you exit the EU you may have reduced or no access until new agreements are made.
    Exactly, that would be the difference between being a successor-state which can assume certain rights on the basis of previous agreements and not having such rights at all.
    Congratulations America

  30. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Yes and we will of course reach such agreements just as all other nations do. Just as nations like Lithuania had to when they much less amicably and with some violence left the USSR. New nations come and old ones go woth surprising regularity. Many new nations do not have amicable break ups from their predecessor. We have a head start in already being a nation and a signatory to many agreements in our own right, something Lithuania didn't have.

    The idea that the UK won't be a fully fledged member of the international community is utterly farcical and absurd.
    You are a member of the international community as a part of the EU. The second you leave the EU hundreds of ties will be cut, and most of them you can't patch up untill you are out because the other parties will want to be 100% certain about what you can offer them. The only way you people can save yourselves is saying 'yes thank you' to the proposal for Brexit, say 'yes thank you' for a transitional period of 3 years during which you will faithfully apply the full Acquis and be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. During this period you can negotiate with the EU and third parties for your future.
    Congratulations America

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