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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #3631
    I think it's pretty clear MPs don't actually know what they want. They latch on to things like "the Irish backstop" only once it's pointed out to them. May doesn't want to embarrass herself by having a vote to cancel Brexit. And there is no majority for any single "soft" Brexit option. That's to say, you're heading toward a hard Brexit because it's the default option.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  2. #3632
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    Well, Parliament has been able to play that game for a long time but the stacked extension puts an end to that on March 29th. From then on what it doesn't want becomes irrelevant because no deal will be in the pocket. Only to be removed from the table if the UK comes up with a new proposal with most of the red lines removed which then either leads to a Norway type exit on the 22nd or an extension so long that Brexit is effectively dead.
    Congratulations America

  3. #3633
    Brexit Ends . . .

    It's over . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #3634
    If you were in Theresa May's position, what would you do now?

    Personally, I call for a ranked preference vote in parliament on these options:
    1) Exit with no deal on April 12th
    2) May's deal
    3) Second referendum, where the options are May's deal, no deal or revoke Article 50.

    I'd then enact whichever won, and resign once it was done.
    There's a man goin' 'round, takin' names
    And he decides who to free and who to blame

  5. #3635
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    Option one is a bit odd as it reverses the earlier no no deal motion and thus renders the offered delay moot.
    Congratulations America

  6. #3636
    Option 1 and 2 have both been rejected by parliament, but there are no other possibilities on the table right now. I think the key is having parliament express it's opinion in terms of the available options. There's no point asking them to vote yes or no on any single option when all the options suck and the default option sucks most.
    There's a man goin' 'round, takin' names
    And he decides who to free and who to blame

  7. #3637
    Hope is the denial of reality

  8. #3638
    I predict that Irish will become the official language of the UK (except in Scotland, of course ).
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  9. #3639
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    There were no lies on a bus.
    Not only did the Brexit bus have a lie on the side but many still believe the lie: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8603646.html

    But heh,it helped you get the result you wanted, so it must be legitimate.
    There's a man goin' 'round, takin' names
    And he decides who to free and who to blame

  10. #3640
    It's not a myth, the gross figure we send to the EU was £350mn [its now more].

    That was reduced by rebate, plus we get a fraction of our own money recycled back to us which was never denied. But the rebate is due to expire at the end of this period and has been continually reduced and they have sought to eliminate it.

    The Remain side made all sorts of just as dubious claims like that the EU pays for infrastructure [with big massive "paid by EU" signs] or pays towards university research etc without acknowledging the EU doesn't magically create its own funds and the amount they spend on us is a fraction of the £350mn gross that we pay and we could just pay it ourselves without the middle man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  11. #3641
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That was reduced by rebate
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That was reduced by rebate
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That was reduced by rebate
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That was reduced by rebate
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That was reduced by rebate
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That was reduced by rebate
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That was reduced by rebate
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That was reduced by rebate
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That was reduced by rebate
    There's a man goin' 'round, takin' names
    And he decides who to free and who to blame

  12. #3642
    It is so weird to have to relitigate that outright lie in 2019, when there are fresh lies and other nonsense to gorge on. The UK does not "send" the EU £350 million in budget contributions, and the monetary value of EU membership far outweighs what the UK does pay (closer to £250 million).
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  13. #3643
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    which was never denied. But the rebate is due to expire at the end of this period and has been continually reduced and they have sought to eliminate it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #3644
    The UK had/has the authority to veto any proposal to scrap the rebate. Just stop, you're being super weird about this.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  15. #3645
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    Randblade is not entirely wrong; the pressure on the rebate was huge and in the long run not even the option of a veto would have been strong enough to keep it. It is however nonsense to say that the risk of that in the future amounts to paying the full amount in the present.
    Congratulations America

  16. #3646
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    The UK had/has the authority to veto any proposal to scrap the rebate. Just stop, you're being super weird about this.
    So much authority that the UK has given up a significant portion of its rebate in each round of budget negotiations recently. The pressure next time would have been enormous too, the idea we keep a rebate while nations like Romania are in the EU is an odd anomaly even if most of the reasons for us getting it in the first place still exist.

    But through the campaign either way it was always quoted as a gross figure and never denied we [for now] have a rebate. But Remainers arguing that played into Leavers hands. Leavers saying "we pay £350mn a week" and Remainers countering "no we have a rebate, we only pay £250mn a week" leaves the audience hearing that either way we pay a large sum each week and that's not disputed.

    So after the People's Vote/Revoke marchers claimed there were a million marching in London on the weekend, independent fact checkers have put the number at 320k-400k.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #3647
    Yup; totally right to call that out. Either a big mistake or a big lie from the organisers, assuming the fact checkers are right.

    In other news, it looks like Mogg may have caved and will be supporting May's deal.


  18. #3648

  19. #3649
    You do realise that's a troll account don't you? That's Nigel Farage's best buddy that's behind that . . . oh and look at that, it's saying to back Nigel Farage's new party. Funny that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #3650
    I'm aware of what it is and how influential it is in this debate.

  21. #3651
    Not very.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #3652
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Not very.
    Can you prove that?

  23. #3653
    No. Can you prove otherwise?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #3654
    Actually I think I can prove it. Look at what Leave.EU have been pushing lately and they've all been flops.

    They tried to get a "purple Momentum" style infiltration of the Tory party and have been pushing to get their supporters to join the Tories then vote to deselect Remain supporting Tories. Only for the Tories to refuse to allow them to join and not one person has been deselected.

    They pushed to get a great rally across the country with Farage to rival the people's vote demonstration and say that Leave Means Leave and get thousands of people to rally across the country. They got 20-30 people showed up.

    These Twitter trolls are better at getting attention from Twitter via trolling than they are actually influencing anything or anybody.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #3655
    Well I'd agree that everything they touch turns to shit, but those examples may just be representative of the degree of support that Brexit has at the moment.

    They certainly have a big following on social media. There's no denying that they are influential in that regard. Given that Leave.EU and Farage are one of the same thing (and you cannot deny how influential he is in this entire charade), you shouldn't underestimate them.

    Speaking anecdotally, my Brexit supporting family certainly take them seriously, but most of them of nutjobs who have a WW2 fantasy and believe everything they've read in the Mail and Express for the last 30 years.

  26. #3656
    I do deny how influential he is. He is a has-been farce who can't get elected to Parliament.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #3657
    Just because he can't get elected doesn't mean he isn't influential. I'd argue he's more influential on the public than the majority of our MPs are.

    The slimy lying toad is everywhere and has massive followings on social media. Far bigger than any MP I can find, including the PM.

  28. #3658
    Social media is an irrelevant echo chamber.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #3659
    Of course it is, of course it is.

  30. #3660
    These "irrelevant" assholes managed to pull the Tories rightwards, and are ultimately responsible for the Tories' wholehearted embrace of xenophobic rhetoric, the referendum and the subsequent decision to leave. Not all influence is direct, but this influence isn't even all that indirect. Farage etc are more dangerous outside parliament than in it.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

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