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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #3781
    Hope is the denial of reality

  2. #3782
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  3. #3783
    I'd vote for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #3784
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I'd vote for that.
    Chances are you will be asked to vote to stay in the EU. And you may all by yourself decide what positive reasons there are for that.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  5. #3785
    Perhaps. May be better to be inside the tent pissing in ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  6. #3786
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    You know that's not going to happen.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  7. #3787
    The UK pissing around isn't going to happen? Even you must acknowledge its the only thing we can rely upon happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #3788
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    No.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  9. #3789
    You think there will be a stage where we're not pissing about?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #3790
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You think there will be a stage where we're not pissing about?
    Everyone in the world (excluding the trump basket) will have you in diapers.
    .

  11. #3791
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Essentially? They tax us relentlessly, and King George turns around and runs a spending spree.
    King George actually sounds comparable to Brussels.

  12. #3792
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The EU and UK evolved in two diametrically different ways. When the UK joined the EEC it was a very socialist country and the 'sick man of Europe'.

    Change began in the 80s with Thatcher transforming the UK from a sick socialist nation to a thriving capitalist one. So the UK moved from left to right. The completion of the Single Market was arguably one of Thatcher's major goals and achievements.

    So whereas 40 years ago the right backed the EEC and the left opposed it, as the two had moved in opposite directions now the right opposed it and the left backed it. The EEC has changed since we joined it, as its name change reflects, but we've changed too.
    Appreciate your reply (hope you don't mind my edits). The 80's was the Reagan/Thatcher era, where all sorts of policies were being revamped to encourage market-based *global* trade. The whole world was evolving and changing; it wasn't just the UK moving to the right in the name of freeee trade capitalism ya know Many "social" policies and Union demands were on the chopping block. (Interesting to note that even Thatcher believed in "socialized medicine" and a NHS tho.)

    Maybe it's not a good comparison, but Brexit seemed to me like a 'sick man of the US' (mostly southern states with large rural populations) wanting to take advantage of our collective federal powers, which attracts trade and business, while at the same time denouncing it. State's rights and all that, some even wanting to secede from the Union. It just doesn't make sense to leave the thing that helped you succeed.

    Not for me no but for others yes it <immigration> was a tipping point.

    The Lisbon Treaty was a major tipping point for a lot of people too.

    Cameron's failed renegotiation was the tipping point for me.
    Treaties and Trade deals can morph into unwieldy behemoths of concentrated power, sure. I'm just not convinced that leaving them is the right way to have a greater voice, especially when it comes to issues surrounding migration/immigration.

  13. #3793
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    The main reason why I want to see Brexit happen is that I am sick and tired of the poisonous debate in the UK about the EU making any sensible adjustment impossible. Randblade with his side are annoying because of the pie in the sky solutions they believe in, the other side though is even worse because they have the same whiny attitude about the EU needing 'reform' but not having even as much as the airheaded 'solutions' of their counterparts.

    I agree with you on this whole thing being reminiscent of the way the southern states detest the Union, yet totally depend on it for their survival.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  14. #3794
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    Apparently Leave.EU are not entirely honest.

    https://www.channel4.com/news/reveal...igrant-footage

    I am shocked.
    Greetings, citizen! THE COMPUTER has made you a protector of the underground city of ALPHA COMPLEX. You will have lots of fun rooting out Communist mutant traitors. The Computer says so.

  15. #3795
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  16. #3796
    What ridiculous scaremongering. Like a real solution would be underpinned by blockchain etc?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #3797
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    What ridiculous scaremongering. Like a real solution would be underpinned by blockchain etc?
    Ie. even the 2030 estimate is implausibly optimistic.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  18. #3798
    Hilariously, the blockchain element of these proposals may end up being the only part to have undergone real-world testing: https://www.ccn.com/samsung-sds-to-p...chain-in-korea
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  19. #3799
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Ie. even the 2030 estimate is implausibly optimistic.
    No a real solution would be a lot simpler and use existing systems. Like we can already handle wildly diverse corporation tax, VAT, income tax and plenty of others without a hard border already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #3800
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    No a real solution would be a lot simpler and use existing systems. Like we can already handle wildly diverse corporation tax, VAT, income tax and plenty of others without a hard border already.
    Thank you for that list of issues that have nothing to do with the matter at hand
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  21. #3801
    Sunlit uplands vs. the real world:

    https://www.google.se/amp/s/amp.ft.c...2-d6ceb45fa9d0
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  22. #3802
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Thank you for that list of issues that have nothing to do with the matter at hand
    They do. There are two main issues to resolve - phytosanitary [sp?] requirements and customs which is a tax.

    For phytosanitary standards it makes sense to align these and then mutually-recognise these are the same. No sense diverging. Even the DUP and ERG have said this is sensible so this is moot.

    Which just leaves customs, a tax. Which we should handle the same as every other tax that is different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #3803
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Fail to see the problem.

    "Oh there's a risk of fraud, oh there's some fraud already" . . . yes. There is. So be it.

    Nobody has or will devise a perfect solution that perfectly eliminates fraud and that perfectly has zero friction. Its about weighing the balance of risks. The fact we already manage to do this with most of the world is no reason we can't do it with the remaining part of the world. If there's fraud then punish the fraudsters, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater looking for a perfect solution. As the article says in both the EU system and the non-EU system there is already fraud, its already not perfect yet we survive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #3804
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Fail to see the problem.

    "Oh there's a risk of fraud, oh there's some fraud already" . . . yes. There is. So be it.

    Nobody has or will devise a perfect solution that perfectly eliminates fraud and that perfectly has zero friction. Its about weighing the balance of risks. The fact we already manage to do this with most of the world is no reason we can't do it with the remaining part of the world. If there's fraud then punish the fraudsters, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater looking for a perfect solution. As the article says in both the EU system and the non-EU system there is already fraud, its already not perfect yet we survive.
    Fraud is rampant and the UK is notorious for its failure to deal with fraud, both wrt VAT and tariffs. More importantly, however, imports of parcels from non-EU countries is substantially more inconvenient and more costly--even with dysfunctional UK authorities looking the other way--and the system responsible for handling those imports is already overburdened. This system does not have the capacity to adequately manage the current situation wrt trade with non-EU countries, and it is delusional to believe your infrastructure will have the capacity to handle a doubling of the burden when parcels from EU countries have to be processed in the same manner, even if private companies will shoulder much of the administrative burden (the costs of which will be passed on to consumers). These problems will be compounded by customs & RoO issues arising from a NDB. Differences in income taxes have little relevance to the issue of cross-border trade. How you currently handle differences in VAT in the context of trade with rEU as an EU member state has little relevance to the cross-border trade issues that will arise when you become a third country with no deal. How you deal with VAT, customs & RoO etc., in the context of trade with the rest of the world, is relevant to the issue of cross-border trade with EU27 in a NDB scenario, not as the positive and encouraging argument you tried to pass it off as, but, rather, as an indicator of just how spectacular this clusterfuck is likely to be.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  25. #3805
    The system does have the capacity to adequately manage the current situation since the current system is already managed adequately.

    Yes fraud is rampant yet life goes on. Shit happens. So should be the solution with Ireland - open border, fraud may happen, if it does try and catch and punish the fraudsters. Peace continues.

    Just as we do with those who commit VAT, Income, Corporation or other types of tax fraud across GB/N Ireland and the Republic already.

    If you want a situation where there is zero capacity for fraud then you're not living in the real world and are setting up a situation where failure is the only outcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #3806
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    Yeah, but you voted for Brexit. And you are living in Lalaland for real if you think we're going to trust you with policing our trade.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  27. #3807
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    .....don't throw the baby out with the bathwater looking for a perfect solution.
    Exactly. But you voted to leave using that mindset. Just sayin'.

  28. #3808
    Genie let out of the bottle, it is now the witching hour
    Murderers, you're murderers, we are not the same as you
    When the walls bend with your breathing
    They will suck you down to the other side, with the shadows blue and red
    Your alarm bells; they should be ringing
    This is the gloaming

  29. #3809
    Looks like May will finally be forced to resign. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...sted-j2d6ks7zl
    Hope is the denial of reality

  30. #3810
    Hope so! Worst PM since Lord North.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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