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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #3871
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    So, how's the democratic process of not getting a new PM through actual elections going?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  2. #3872
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I'd like to know the purpose of fuses if nothing built into a system can be broken, when they break they are doing what they are meant to do.
    That's because your analogy is garbage. First of all, fuses are ancient technology and you're better served with circuit breakers unless you're a cheapskate. Secondly, fuses don't melt due to the stuff inside the system, they break due to external influences outside their control.

    As I said, garbage analogy.

    Thirdly: A better analogy would be to equate your head with an intellectual singularity - it simply does not bottom out and it makes everyone dumber in its vicinity.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  3. #3873
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    No deal = UK pays €50bn (or whatever amount is calculated due), UK guarantees the possibility of an open border between the ROI and NI, UK guarantees the rights of EU citizens.

    Deal = (No deal) + transition period, rights of UK citizens are guaranteed, the UK gets to talk about a trade arrangement with the EU.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  4. #3874
    The slower thing in the universe is Brexit.
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  5. #3875
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  6. #3876
    https://www.ft.com/content/a678db62-...d-b42f641eca37

    Confidential cabinet note warns UK not ready for a no-deal Brexit on October 31
    Document says it will take months to prepare pharma sector and for border checks

    Boris Johnson’s promise to take Britain out of the EU with or without a deal on the scheduled Brexit date of October 31 has been undermined by a confidential cabinet note warning that the country is still far from prepared for the disruption of a disorderly exit.

    The note, seen by the Financial Times, says the government needs six to eight months of engagement with the pharmaceutical industry “to ensure adequate arrangements are in place to build stockpiles of medicines by October 31”.

    It also says that it would take “at least 4-5 months” to improve trader readiness for the new border checks that might be required, including the provision of financial incentives to encourage exporters and importers to register for new schemes.

    Mr Johnson, the frontrunner to become the next Conservative party leader and prime minister, launched his campaign on Wednesday. He insisted that the UK could not “go on kicking the can down the road with yet more delay” over Brexit.

    But the cabinet note confirms that any new prime minister would find it very hard to conclude preparations, especially on medicines and border controls by October 31.

    The Foreign Office, according to the note, would need “at least a two-month period” to communicate with more than 1m UK citizens living in other EU countries and to allow them to prepare for the uncertainty around their future status.

    The note, prepared for cabinet on May 21, said that while government departments had delivered around 85 per cent of their “core no-deal plans”, many of those provided only “a minimum viable level of capability”.

    Of the remaining plans that had not been delivered, the note says the shortcomings in government readiness were “material”.

    The presentation to cabinet was drawn up with input from Steve Barclay, the Eurosceptic Brexit secretary, who has been frustrated by the government’s failure to accelerate its preparations for a no-deal exit.

    The note was never circulated for the cabinet discussion on May 21 because Theresa May was concentrating at the time on her ultimately failed bid to push through the legislation on her deal with the EU. After that attempt collapsed, the prime minister announced her plans to resign.

    A spokesman from Mr Barclay’s department said on Wednesday that the government would “absolutely continue to make all necessary preparations” after spending almost three years preparing to minimise the disruption of no-deal. He added that the government had published 750 pieces of no-deal communication since October and held 700 “cross-government stakeholder engagements” this year.

    A Department of Health and Social Care spokesperson said: “We’ve been working with the pharmaceutical industry for the last 18 months on no-deal contingency planning and continue to do so.”

    The cabinet returned to no-deal planning this week, with Sajid Javid, home secretary, claiming that chancellor Philip Hammond was holding back on spending money because of his fierce opposition to a no-deal exit.

    The chancellor argued he had given Mr Javid’s department £500m in April and was surprised it had already spent that money. Mr Javid then wrote to Mr Hammond asking for a further £1bn for border preparations for a no-deal exit.

    Mr Hammond is blamed by Tory Eurosceptics for holding up the preparations necessary for a British exit on October 31 without a formal withdrawal treaty.

    But after two previous delays to the Brexit date, Mr Johnson advocates leaving the EU on schedule, whether Britain agrees a deal or not.

    “Now is the time to unite this country and unite this society, and we cannot begin that task until we have delivered on the primary request of the people; the one big thing they have asked us to do,” he said at his campaign launch. “After three years and two missed deadlines, we must leave the EU on October 31.”

    Labour on Wednesday afternoon failed in a cross-party Commons move to block a no-deal exit; the party wanted to seize control of the parliamentary order paper to legislate — if necessary — to stop a new prime minister taking Britain out of the EU without a withdrawal agreement.

    Mr Barclay’s allies admit that he is frustrated by the government’s “confusing” position on no deal, which has meant that the private sector has failed to properly prepare for such an outcome.

    One person close to Mr Barclay said: “Steve has been making the case for a ramp up of no-deal spending for weeks. The government has a responsibility to prepare and it’s crucial we don’t waste this time in improving our readiness.”

    Downing Street said it would not comment on leaks. A Department of Health and Social Care spokesperson said: “We’ve been working with the pharmaceutical industry for the last 18 months on no-deal contingency planning and continue to do so.”
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  7. #3877
    Read this very neat summary of the last few years.
    It’s effective a game of poker between ordinary voters and the London focused leadership of the country

    LFL: You can’t have a say on EU
    OV: Fine, we’ll vote UKIP
    LFL: Ok we’ll give you a referendum
    OV: we want to leave
    LFL: We’ll pretend but work to frustrate it
    LFL: See, it’s all too difficult. Let’s revoke
    OV: Sod off, we said leave
    LFL: but we can’t agree a deal
    OV: fine, no deal
    LFL: are you nuts?
    OV: just try us
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #3878
    Oh wow you've turned into a Boomer meme
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  9. #3879
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Read this very neat summary of the last few years.

    LFL: The short-sighted, the ignorant and the xenophobes want to keep johnny foreigner out, ruining the economy and making everyone in the country worse off in the process, we should do all we can to prevent this from happening
    OV: Fine, we’ll vote UKIP - good ol' Nige knows how to keep the smelly foreigners out. Except his wife, but we don't mention her.
    LFL: Ok we’ll give you a referendum
    OV: we want to leave - there are too many brown people here
    LFL: We’ll try to get a deal which doesn't wreck the economy
    LFL: See, it’s all too difficult. Leaving means we're fucked. Let’s revoke
    OV: Sod off, we said leave. I had a paki family move in next to me yesterday. It's unacceptable.
    LFL: but we can’t agree a deal - a brexit deal which is good for the country is an oxymoron
    OV: fine, no deal
    LFL: are you nuts?
    OV: just try us
    LFL: lol - there goes the country
    Fixed that for ya.
    Last edited by Timbuk2; Yesterday at 08:06 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  10. #3880
    "A Brexit deal which is good for the economy is an oxymoron." Sounds about right, Timbuk

    I still don't understand why the Brexiteers thought this was a great idea in the first place, let alone how it could be pulled off without severe economic consequences.

    Rand tries hard to say it's about autonomy or sovereignty, but it ends up sounding like nostalgia for the British Empire.

    The US has a similar problem with "populism" as a symptom of tribalism/nativism, anti-establishment, anti-globalism, etc. But it's really all based on fears in a rapidly changing world, and losing control to "others". The code words are heavily loaded but insidious. No better way to obscure systemic racism or xenophobia than to hide behind words like autonomy, sovereignty, Nationalism, or Freeeedom!


  11. #3881
    Not sure where on Earth you get that from. I've not said anything resembling support for Empire.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #3882
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Not sure where on Earth you get that from. I've not said anything resembling support for Empire.
    We have no doubt that's what you think. But when it comes into the outside world it all sounds very different. We know the UK is a smallish country totally dependent on bigger countries and the EU for its well-being. You think the UK is an equal partner to those bigger countries and/or the EU. And that makes you say things like 'global Britain' or point at a seat in the SC which you got when you were still representing a quarter of this world's population. If those seats were distributed today nobody in his right mind would consider you a serious candidate for permanent membership.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  13. #3883
    If 5 permanent seats were to be given today then under what objective measurements would you award those 5 seats by? And who would therefore get them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #3884
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    See? Here you go again. On the basis of being pointed out your insignificance you want to start a debate on the conditions for a sensible distribution of permanent seats. The problem with that is that your opinions in that case would carry no weight. Just as the opinion of your government would be irrelevant.
    We know you will hang on to your seat until you actually are chucked out or until the US makes the UN even less relevant than it already is. After that you are just an extra without any lines.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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