Are Canadians "so fucking stupid" for not being in the USA?
The EU is seeking to be the USA of Europe. No offence but I'd rather be the Canada of Europe.
Are Canadians "so fucking stupid" for not being in the USA?
The EU is seeking to be the USA of Europe. No offence but I'd rather be the Canada of Europe.
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Great, then you'll be at our beck and call just like them.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
I agree with what you say, but given the short term damage I still think the EU would choose prolongation over a crashing out. Which is not the same as a re-negotiation by the way. The example most quoted in the discussion on the continent is that of the Tsipras administration signing on the dotted line after having bungled a couple of days over the abyss. Despite a referendum rejecting the program.
Congratulations America
This argument is no less dumb today than it was the first time you made it. Not joining is not the same as crashing out.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
And the UK continued to be a bulwark against moves toward a federated EU as it suited them to do so, and more importantly while they were in a position to do so, whilst benefitting from the Customs Union, bank passporting, and other merits of close ties with their nearest neighbour, the richest trading bloc in the world.
Now the UK has no say whatsoever in what direction the EU heads, whilst also losing those significant benefits they once had when they exit.
Precisely.
Last edited by Timbuk2; 08-07-2019 at 08:38 AM.
Randblade will never admit that Brexit is an unmitigated disaster, it harms the British economy, it divides society and it will destroy the constitution of the country while reducing its status in the world. None of these he imagined would happen and he can't accept being responsible for all the harm done now or in the future by casting his vote the way he did.
That would apply in general, people are slow to accept that their choices turned out the wrong way. But with Randblade it's exceptionally strong.
Congratulations America
Over the long term yes they are the same. In the short term there may be a difference but we will adapt.
Were Texas mad for crashing out of Mexico? Are we expecting Texas to rejoin Mexico any day now?
Maybe not the best example. Was Ukraine mad for crashing out of the USSR?
All of these examples are dumb because they have next to no relevance to the UK's relationship with and status within the EU or with the modern economy, other than possibly that Texas would be super dumb to crash out of the US in the same way the UK is crashing out of the EU. Over a sufficiently long term with a sufficiently low resolution nothing is different from anything else.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Its not dumb. Its perfectly normal and reasonable to be an independent modern nation.
None of these examples are relevant to the current discussion. Texas is not an independent nation and hasn't been independent for over a century; its relationship with the rest of Mexico prior to independence is not like the UK's relationship with the EU. Nor was Ukraine's relationship with the USSR like the UK's relationship with the EU, and the EU is not significantly like the USSR in any meaningful sense, no matter what dull-witted British backbenchers with their heads stuck up their asses may believe. Your examples are not informative, which may either explain or just illustrate your lack of information.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
So, Rand, you just ignore that your statement about the UK keeping their borders open is rather dumb or what?
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Wait, I thought we were moving towards being the US?
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
No no EUSSR
Congratulations America
It's not dumb, there's a very simple solution. Treat exports from every country of origin the same, require declarations, on the Irish border for national security reasons [as permitted by the WTO] keep the border open but still require the same customs to be payable. Don't have any inspections on the border but treat smuggling the same as we treat other forms of tax evasion.
Already today taxes aren't harmonised and smuggling is a very real problem within the EU. Especially on things like tobacco and alcohol which are perfect items to smuggle: small, valuable and a heavy variance in duties.
You're right, the UK is less integrated with the EU than the Ukraine was with the USSR. So independence should be easier to achieve.
I think you may have lost yourself in the inane point you were trying to make.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
No I've not. Brexit is perfectly normal.
Countries being independent is not unique, unusual or unprecedented. The fact that the UK is already more independent than other countries that have in living memory become independent shows that.
It doesn't matter whether you were always independent or choose to become so. It is natural, normal and nothing to be afraid of.
You are being utterly absurd Aimless and disrespectful to other countries that have gone through dramatic changes far more than anything the UK is undergoing. This is much ado about nothing.
Countries have undergone entire revolutions, we have seen the breakup of Czechoslovakia, the fall of the USSR we have seen countries merge and countries become independent.
Here we have us leaving a union that is nowhere near as integrated [yet] as any of those. We are changing our customs and trade arrangements primarily. Some minor changes to the rest of our laws. And that's it. Parliament continues, we remain a country in the UN, we already have but now start exercising our seat at the WTO.
It is really not that big of a deal. We leave, life goes on, we move on. We will be like Canada to the EU's USA and the fact we used to be members is neither here nor there, we won't be any more, it will be a quaint part of history.
Yeah you'll be a vassal state and the idea that you had any influence will be quaint.
Congratulations America
Yeah, why don't you kill off the rest of your industry while you're at it? This will be Armageddon for your farmers.
Also, you do realize that the EU does not have a choice in this: We will not have a trade deal with you which means we are REQUIRED to treat you the same as Yemen, for example. Your precious WTO mandates that we do so.
And when you've lost Scotland and NI you'll be even more of a dwarf country with dreams of former glory.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Do what you have to do, I don't care. That's your problem - a problem easily solved by giving us a great deal.
You already have a deal on the table.
Also, let's track back a bit: You realize that you early said that Brexit is illegal, right?
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Yes we have a deal, a very shit one. I said a great deal, not a shit deal.
I don't know what you mean by "you early said that Brexit is illegal".
Yet, it is the best deal you can get. This is what you voted for. And you can't say you weren't told this could happen.
Congratulations America
Yeah, I figured as much. Let's backtrack further: Can you summarize to me why the backstop is illegal from your point of view?
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
It was pointed out to me that Canada stopped formal talks with the UK about a future relationship a week ago. And that in the joint press conference with Raab the Canadian FM said many kind things but evaded any words on economic cooperation with the UK after Brexit.
Congratulations America
In summary because it rides roughshot over the principle of consent and NIs right to self-determine its future, because they will be subject to laws that they had no shape in drafting or approving and because it could create an East/West border.
That's fine and why I'm prepared to shrug my shoulders and walk away. Once you're willing to speak to us as equal partners then we can talk, meanwhile if you feel the need to build customs posts in Ireland then good luck to you.
Equal partners? Who do you think you are? The British Empire? You are no equals of us by any metric.
Congratulations America
No I think we are a free, modern independent nation.
Who do you think you are? Do you think that you are some sort of Empire? Do you think we are some sort of colony?
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